New Neighbours, New Nightmares: Claire Douglas on Crafting Compelling Crime
Welcome back to another episode and today’s we’re lucky enough to get to chat to Claire Douglas about her latest thriller, The New Neighbours. This was my first of read of Claire’s and I loved it so much I went straight back to the beginning and read her debut which was another winner for me. I can’t wait to read more.
In this episode we chat about the inspiration behind The New Neighbours and we managed to keep it completely spoiler free! We discover the inspiration behind the story and find out whether Claire is as brave as her characters (I know I’m not). Of course as always we chat about the five books that have shaped Claire’s life (let’s gloss over the fact she picked the entire Famous Five series).
Here are Claire’s choices.
The Famous Five by Enid Bylton
Rachel's Holiday by Marian Keyes
The Moving Finger by Agatha Christie
The Secret History by Donna Tartt
Also mentioned in this episode:
We Are Completely Beside Ourselves
I Let You Go by Clare MacIntosh
Gentleman & Players by Joanne Harris
Since recording I have now read and loved Rachel’s Holiday I only needed three bestselling authors to convince me!
If you've enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it, please, please do me a little favour! Take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to Best Book Forward – it makes the world of difference in helping more book lovers find our little corner of the podcast world. And the absolute best thing you could do? Tell a friend who you think would love Claire’s books or our chats! Until next time, happy reading!
Transcript
Welcome back to Best Book Forward.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Helen, and this is the podcast where we delve into the literary landscapes that have shaped our favourite authors lives.
Speaker A:Think of it as your ultimate bookish version of Desert Island Discs.
Speaker A:Today, I'm delighted to be chatting with the brilliant Clare Douglas.
Speaker A:If you've picked up one of her books, you know you're in for a treat.
Speaker A:And her new novel, the New Neighbours, is an absence of cracker.
Speaker A:And that's what we're going to be discussing today.
Speaker A:It's a gripping read about a woman who accidentally overhears her nude neighbours discussing what she thinks might be a crime.
Speaker A:Talk about getting off on the wrong foot.
Speaker A:In this episode we get the inside scoop on what sparked the idea for the New Neighbours.
Speaker A:We find out whether Claire would be as brave as her characters.
Speaker A:And we also chat about the pressure of continually coming up with fresh twists after writing 11 incredibly popular novels.
Speaker A:And of course, no episode of Best Book Forward would be complete without discovering the five books that have shaped Clare's life and her amazing writing journey.
Speaker A:So without further ado, let's dive straight in and give a massive welcome to the wonderful Claire Douglas.
Speaker B:Clare, welcome and thank you so much for joining me on Best Book Forward today.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker C:I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker B:I'm so excited.
Speaker B:We've just been having a lovely chat before we started, so I'm really excited to get into this.
Speaker B:So we're here today to talk about your new novel, the New Neighbors.
Speaker B:Whenever you're chatting about a thriller, it's very easy to spoil.
Speaker B:So we're going to go and tread carefully.
Speaker B:Note to me to keep this spoiler.
Speaker C:Free.
Speaker B:It will be me.
Speaker B:Claire, if there's anyone so lovely we could just start off by giving everyone a little flavour of what the New Neighbors is all about.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:So it's about Leila.
Speaker C:So she's my main character and she's just.
Speaker C:She's lived in the same house for quite a few years and she's just split with her husband and her son is about to go off to university.
Speaker C:So she's feeling a bit lonely, a bit bored, a bit like, where's my life going?
Speaker C:And she said she's got a sort of a job that she's not that like that pleased about.
Speaker C:You know, she's.
Speaker C:It's not something she really wanted to do with her life.
Speaker C:Anyway, these, these neighbors have just moved in next door, so she's only seen them from afar.
Speaker C:She meets them in the beginning of the novel.
Speaker C:Like right at the beginning, like a middle aged couple, late, late, middle aged, little 60s, mid-60s.
Speaker C:And they're sort of very well to do.
Speaker C:They have like.
Speaker C:One was electro, one was a surgeon.
Speaker C:So she sort of looks up to them straight away.
Speaker C:She's like, oh my God.
Speaker C:You know, they look next door.
Speaker C:And so she's a little bit sort of like when she meets them at the beginning, she's a bit like sort of scared of them and a bit like, you know, intimidated.
Speaker C:Anyway, she's in the garden later that day, it's a really hot day and her son asks her to gather some sign for her his media styles project.
Speaker C:And she said, yeah, okay, I'll do it for you.
Speaker C:Because he goes off to see his dad.
Speaker C:So she's in there with a big boom microphone and the window's all open because it's a sunny, hot day.
Speaker C:And she picks up this conversation between the.
Speaker C:The new neighbours, the Morgans, and it sounds like they're planning a crime.
Speaker C:So that's the sort of premise of the.
Speaker B:It is such a great premise and I love that.
Speaker B:I'm drawn to thrillers that sort of seem to happen in the ordinary because it's so believable, isn't it?
Speaker B:Yes, actually we did when we lived in London.
Speaker B:We overheard not planning a crime, but we overheard a really awkward conversation with our neighbours.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker C:With like a row or like a.
Speaker B:It was headed there.
Speaker B:He'd been caught chatting to a lady online.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:It was very awkward.
Speaker B:I don't know if it led to a crime.
Speaker B:Maybe later on you could have been like a witness.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I get called into court and I did nothing about it.
Speaker B:I was sat there with my glass.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd probably be like that too.
Speaker C:Obviously scared to do anything about it.
Speaker B:I think I'd be like, yeah, me too.
Speaker B:But it is.
Speaker B:So it's such a great premise and I would love if you could tell us where the initial spark came from.
Speaker C:If you.
Speaker B:Did you ever hear a conversation with your neighbors that sparked it?
Speaker B:Where does it come from?
Speaker C:No, it was actually I watched.
Speaker C:It's an old film I watched which was about this older couple and I won't say what crime they committed because it give away my story a little bit.
Speaker C:But it's about.
Speaker C:It's a really old film.
Speaker C: It's like a: Speaker C:Again, sort of like late middle aged couple who are very unassuming and they're basically Planning this horrible crime.
Speaker C:And you're like, why is this?
Speaker C:And it's, it's basically more about them rather than like, you know, anything else.
Speaker C:But it's, it's like a.
Speaker C:Why are they doing.
Speaker C:Why are they doing this?
Speaker C:Like, you don't know right until the end why they've decided to do what they do.
Speaker C:And I just thought that's such an interesting idea, like having this couple that you just would never expect to do something really bad.
Speaker C:And like, why, like, why are they gonna do this?
Speaker C:So, and then I sort of thought about Lena picking up another film actually, which I love, which is the.
Speaker C:The one with John Travolta Blowout.
Speaker C:Do you remember that film where he's.
Speaker C:He's a sound man.
Speaker C:It's like a 70s film and he's a sound man and he picks up some sound.
Speaker C:He picks up a car going off the road and like the tire blowing out and.
Speaker C:But then he realizes there's a gunshot behind it and it's actually like there's something else going on.
Speaker C:So it's that these two sort of ideas all merged together.
Speaker C:I love old film.
Speaker C:I love watching films, as I thought.
Speaker C:And then obviously in the book there's a lot of film references because Rufus is doing film studies.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So the idea sort of merged between these two films.
Speaker C:Really.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:That's so interesting.
Speaker B:I often wonder where people pick up their sort of ideas.
Speaker B:That's so interesting.
Speaker B:Like, I think so many of us just watching movies and think, oh, that's a great idea.
Speaker B:Move on to the next.
Speaker C:I gotta get Ricky little dates.
Speaker C:Oh, that's good to add in a book later.
Speaker B:Oh, well, that's why you are a best selling author and I'm just enjoying reading your book.
Speaker B:So we had a chat before we came on about spoilers and I have admitted I don't think I can be trusted to talk too much about the two neighbors because I'm worried that I will let something slip.
Speaker B:So we're just going to focus on Lena, who is a great character.
Speaker B:Really, really interesting.
Speaker B:As you said.
Speaker B:We meet her at a difficult time.
Speaker B:Her son's going off to university.
Speaker B:She is a bit lost, you know, and then she's sort of in awe of these new neighbors, a bit intimidated by them.
Speaker B:By the way, I love that you describe the new neighbor as like Joanna Lumley look alike.
Speaker C:That's a funny voice.
Speaker C:You know, that's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Lemon is just so like classy, isn't she?
Speaker C:Like, you're just like, oh, she's just like, you can't imagine her committing a crime.
Speaker C:You know, she's just not.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I thought I quite wanted that sort of image somewhere.
Speaker B:It only gets made into a movie.
Speaker C:Joanna's got to be in it.
Speaker B:She has got to be married now.
Speaker B:Yes, that'd be amazing.
Speaker B:I think Lena is quite relatable to many women in that sort of, you know, the struggles that she's facing.
Speaker B:You put her through quite a lot in the New Neighbors.
Speaker B:You don't give her an easy ride.
Speaker B:But I loved seeing how she reacts to it all.
Speaker B:So I'd love if you could talk to us about Lena, you know, where she came from, how you developed her.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So basically I wanted somebody that was quite nosy by nature, but also somebody that's got a past where she felt like she didn't do the right thing.
Speaker C:So she's.
Speaker C:Without giving too much away, she was.
Speaker C:Was a midwife and something happened at the hospital where she worked, where she knew something was wrong, but she didn't.
Speaker C:She didn't address it or tell anyone.
Speaker C:So something.
Speaker C:As a result, something bad happened.
Speaker C:Essentially, she's carried this sort of bit of guilt with her all these years, and she left mid.
Speaker C:She left that being a midwife and left her training because of this.
Speaker C:So when she thinks she's overhearing a crime next door, she's like, something could, you know, it could be.
Speaker C:This could be true.
Speaker C:They could be really planning something and I could save someone's life.
Speaker C:So she sort of got that.
Speaker C:So she's almost, like overly sensitized to it because of what happened in her past.
Speaker C:So I thought that that was quite a good.
Speaker C:For me, that was quite a good motivation for her because like I said, a lot of people, like, I wouldn't.
Speaker C:I'll just be like, okay, are they.
Speaker C:Are they not?
Speaker C:Well, I carry on watching TV or whatever.
Speaker C:Like, I probably wouldn't really, you know, But Lena, it sort of plays on her mind and she sort of worries about, like, you know, something.
Speaker C:And also it's to show that she's a little bit lost and a little bit bored.
Speaker C:She hasn't really got much else going on at the moment.
Speaker C:Her son's got his own life, you know, he's her husband and her split up, so it's like there's a little bit of, like, is she just a bit bored?
Speaker C:Is she just a bit, like, reading into stuff that's not there, or is there something for her to be concerned about?
Speaker C:It's like trusting your own instincts, isn't it?
Speaker C:And she didn't trust her instincts in the past and this is why she's, like, now thinking.
Speaker C:It's almost like she's gone into.
Speaker C:Her brain's gone to overdrive, you know, she's.
Speaker C:It's like, yeah, she's.
Speaker C:But then, is she right?
Speaker C:I can't say without spoiling it, but I suppose it won't be a book if she was wrong.
Speaker B:But that's quite.
Speaker B:It's quite interesting, though, as a reader as well, then, because, you know, it's sort of alluded to that something's gone on in her past and there's guilt, which you obviously find out much later on.
Speaker B:But it then also makes her.
Speaker B:Because I'm looking at these new neighbors and I'm thinking, well, he's a surgeon and she's joined only.
Speaker C:Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker B:So it does make you sort of think, like, is she reliable?
Speaker B:Is she sort of looking for something?
Speaker B:Has she heard it properly as well?
Speaker B:So it's really, really interesting.
Speaker B:I think that backstory as well, once you find out what's happened, was so.
Speaker B:It is so clever understanding her.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:And the whole thing, obviously.
Speaker C:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:Talking of riddles over here.
Speaker C:I know, I know it.
Speaker C:Because you don't want to.
Speaker C:It's so hard, isn't it, to say because you don't want to give stuff away, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:There's nothing worse when somebody spoils a book for you, is there?
Speaker B:When somebody drops a spoil in a book club years ago, there was a book.
Speaker B:It was there.
Speaker B:We are completely beside ourselves.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think I've read that, actually.
Speaker B:I won't tell you the spoiler, but my friend gave me.
Speaker B:But my friend was talking about.
Speaker B:She's like, it's amazing.
Speaker B:And then when you realize, enter spoiler.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:It's such a huge twist in it that I can't read it because I know.
Speaker B:So I'm already looking for the sign.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was like, so you will have to read it.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know.
Speaker C:I want to read it now.
Speaker C:It sounds good.
Speaker C:I like the Life of a Twist.
Speaker B:I was thinking, like, I would have loved that one.
Speaker B:I'm sure that would have been a great read.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, no.
Speaker C:That's such a shame.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:It's like when someone spoils a film, isn't it?
Speaker C:Or like, if you're watching a series on telly and someone's like, scores, like, what's gonna happen at the end?
Speaker C:Just like, I'm always, like, really scared when a new series comes on to, like, look, on the Internet as a case, you find, you know, spoiler for it.
Speaker B:And they do, don't they?
Speaker B:Because they put so many little.
Speaker B:Even like little snippets of things.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's not a spoiler, but I'm like, I want to watch it and enjoy it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I don't know anything.
Speaker C:I know, I know.
Speaker B:But then I can't help but watch them anyway.
Speaker C:I know I'm the same.
Speaker C:But sometimes it's actually quite good if you know the twist, because then as a writer, I'm looking, as I read the book, I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
Speaker C:I can see how they've seeded this twist in.
Speaker C:So sometimes is quite good as well.
Speaker C:From my perspective, it's like, oh, I can see, you know, how they did this.
Speaker C:Yeah, pulled it off.
Speaker B:See, I read the books that when I'm chatting somebody on the podcast, I read them twice.
Speaker B:So I always.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I just read it once as, like, just to enjoy it.
Speaker B:Yes, that's a good idea.
Speaker B:And then I read it next time, sort of try and sort of work out what's happening.
Speaker B:But I always find with thrillers, I forget to look out.
Speaker B:I mean, I always say I'm the world's worst detective because I never get twists and things, but I think I just end up enjoying it.
Speaker B:And sort of.
Speaker B:I'm almost like one of the characters sort of, you know, unfolds.
Speaker B:So I'm always shocked.
Speaker B:And actually, I have been shocked by the same twist twice, so.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker C:That's good, though, isn't.
Speaker C:That's what, like, a writer wants.
Speaker C:You want them.
Speaker C:You want somebody to, like.
Speaker C:You want someone to be like, oh, yes, I can.
Speaker C:I can see that that's plausible, but at the same time, not guess it or, like, guess it right at the right point, you know, like, just as you're about to reveal it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that's one of the hard things about thrillers as well, because I think it's so hard because it's like, people be like, oh, it's unpredictable.
Speaker B:It was like, unbelievable or whatever.
Speaker B:But I'm like, let's remember, it's fiction.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:This is the thing.
Speaker C:Is it like.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:I mean, sure, I probably wouldn't do some of the things that Lena does, you know, like.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But then some people might.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Like, I'm probably more like sort of careful.
Speaker C:And I probably wouldn't do, like, for example, I can.
Speaker C:I'm sure this isn't a spoiler, but she finds the spare key that the old neighbourhood left behind.
Speaker C:And she obviously decides to let herself into the house.
Speaker C:Now.
Speaker C:Probably wouldn't have done that.
Speaker C:Maybe I would.
Speaker C:Probably wouldn't have done it.
Speaker C:But then, you know, I hope that I've given Lena enough backstory to.
Speaker C:To explain why if, you know, I might not do that, why she did it.
Speaker C:You know, it's like, if you really think.
Speaker C:And I think if I really thought that my neighbours, I don't know, had some dark secret in the house that I was really worried, would I.
Speaker C:I don't know, I'd like to think that I wouldn't, but.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:You need him to ruin that situation really, isn't it?
Speaker C:Who knows how you can act?
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:That's what I was going to move on to asking you about, actually, because the one thing I do not have in common with her is there's no way I would go into the house.
Speaker B:Like, there's no way.
Speaker B:And it was so tense.
Speaker B:Like, when she's in the house, I'm like, what are you doing?
Speaker B:Get out, get out.
Speaker B:So she's discovering things in there as well.
Speaker B:Hello.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:But even, like movies and things, anything.
Speaker C:Like that, I'm like, yeah, I'm like that.
Speaker B:But then equally I was like.
Speaker B:But I probably wouldn't phone the police because I would.
Speaker B:They believe me.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:It's such a threat.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:This is the thing, isn't it?
Speaker C:He wants.
Speaker C:It's like the thing she finds is like.
Speaker C:It's like, exactly.
Speaker C:She hasn't got any proof that they had this conversation.
Speaker C:She's only got a little bit of it on her recording.
Speaker C:So she's like, how can.
Speaker C:And then obviously an upstanding couple and who's gonna.
Speaker C:She thinks they're gonna believe me.
Speaker C:Or then this like, you know, ex surgeon and his, like, lecturer wife, you know, who looks like John Alimony.
Speaker C:They're not gonna believe her.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So this is why she's.
Speaker C:She thinks I need to get more evidence.
Speaker C:I need to get more, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's also that, I mean, like, her sort of background.
Speaker B:You're thinking, you could see how the police would be like, oh, yeah, your husband's just gone, your son's off, you got a little job.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You're just, you know, bored.
Speaker C:You're just gonna be, you know, you're just looking for something.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:So she's like all these things.
Speaker B:Middle aged Nancy Drew.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:We were chatting before we came on.
Speaker B:I said, where would you be?
Speaker B:Would you be in or phoning 999?
Speaker B:Or would you be the one that I needed to worry about?
Speaker B:Would you be actually the owner of that house?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I really honestly don't know what I would do if I was her.
Speaker C:Like, I think.
Speaker C:I don't think I would find the police because, again, I would be scared that they wouldn't believe me.
Speaker C:And I don't think I'd break into the house.
Speaker C:I probably would just be watching them a bit more.
Speaker C:I think maybe I'll just be watching from the safety of my own home to see what they get up to.
Speaker C:But I don't think I would.
Speaker C:I don't think I would have had the guts to go into the house unless it was to feed the cat or something.
Speaker C:You know, there's like a reason to be there.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But then is this why.
Speaker B:Is this why we need more laners?
Speaker B:Like, you think how many times that you see on the news and people like, oh, they're such a lovely couple.
Speaker B:I never would have guessed.
Speaker C:I know, I know.
Speaker C:Actually, we do.
Speaker C:We need more lazy neighbors to keep everyone in line.
Speaker B:Now, this is not giving listeners permission to go into your neighbor's house and root around.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Not taking responsibility for that one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:So we went off on lots of little tangents.
Speaker B:So we were just talking about the twist.
Speaker B:So when I'm talking to readers and reading other reviews, so much seems to hang on the twist when it comes to a thriller.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:People want to talk about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's really important to.
Speaker B:To readers.
Speaker B:I've now read two of your books.
Speaker B:So I do things.
Speaker B:I do things in the weirdest way.
Speaker B:So I read the New Neighbors first.
Speaker B:Then I went back and read the.
Speaker C:Sisters, my oldest one, which is.
Speaker C:Which is a bit of a weird one, isn't it?
Speaker C:Because I think when I wrote the Sisters, I wasn't quite sure what it was like.
Speaker C:I wasn't quite sure what I was writing.
Speaker C:I just wanted to write this sort of book.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And then.
Speaker C:And then I remember when I wrote that, my publisher was like, oh, this is like a.
Speaker C:This is like a sort of.
Speaker C:Sort of, you know, psychological suspense.
Speaker C:And I was like, is it.
Speaker C:I don't even really know what that was like.
Speaker C:Say, like.
Speaker C:So when I.
Speaker C:So I think my.
Speaker C:My first one.
Speaker C:I don't know what you thought after me did the Neighbors, I loved it.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:When I was reading, I was thinking, it's again, I was like, I don't know who to trust.
Speaker B:Me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know who.
Speaker B:Who I can believe and what's happened.
Speaker B:So, like, again, you sort of allude to something in the past, and as that sort of becomes more, you know, as the threads all sort of pull together, I was like, oh, it's really, really clever.
Speaker C:That was a bit more unreliable narrators, wasn't it, in that?
Speaker C:Well, I think.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which.
Speaker C:Which was quite a thing then.
Speaker C:I think more so, maybe.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Than now.
Speaker C:I don't think I'd write so many narrators.
Speaker C:I mean, that's Ms.
Speaker C:Lena could be a reliable narrator, but depends who's looking at her.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, if you look at her and you don't know her backstory, then for a while I was like, hang on.
Speaker B:Clearly something's gone on.
Speaker B:So is this your world, then?
Speaker B:You like to sort of build things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Interesting, interesting.
Speaker B:So now I'm gonna go either side.
Speaker B:I'm not sure.
Speaker B:Like, go right back to getting a bit one here.
Speaker B:But I was like, I love it when that happens.
Speaker B:And I was like, I've got all these books to read.
Speaker B:I've actually just had today.
Speaker B:The Girls who Disappeared has just landed.
Speaker B:So I've just ordered that.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:You like it?
Speaker B:I'm sure I will.
Speaker B:On the Sisters on the back, Gillian McAllister, who's also on this season.
Speaker B:We chatted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, we chatted about famous last words.
Speaker B:She quoted our new your.
Speaker B:On the Sisters, Douglas is the queen of the unexpected twist.
Speaker C:Oh, that's a lovely quote.
Speaker B:It's lovely.
Speaker B:So how do you know when you've come up with a killer twist?
Speaker B:Do they ever take you by surprise as you're writing?
Speaker B:Do they sort of ever just reveal themselves?
Speaker B:And how much pressure do you feel to come up with a fresh one?
Speaker C:I think you do, especially as it goes on and there's more and more thrillers in the marketplace.
Speaker C:It's sort of hard almost to find.
Speaker C:Find an original twist.
Speaker C:Isn't it, like a fresh take on it?
Speaker C:Some of my books there, the twist is, like.
Speaker C:It comes quite funny form.
Speaker C:Like with the Covenant number nine, that was like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:Gosh.
Speaker C:You know, I know this is what this twist is going to be.
Speaker C:And some of them are like, they.
Speaker C:I sort of have the idea for the story and then the twist sort of comes as I'm writing the story.
Speaker C:So, oh, there might be a few twists rather than one big twist.
Speaker C:So the COVID number nine's got one big sort of midway twist and a few others.
Speaker C:But, like, that's the Big.
Speaker C:But then I'd say the.
Speaker C:The New Neighbors has probably got a few smaller twists.
Speaker C:There's a biggest twist by the end, isn't it?
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker C:So I think it depends, doesn't it?
Speaker C:I think it depends on the story, but I do feel like it is.
Speaker C:The other pressure to come up with a good twist is, you know, and also if you make too much of the twist in the.
Speaker C:The blurb of the book, you're worried that people be like, oh, they're gonna be, like, let down because it's never going to be as big and as amazing as you've led them to believe, you know, so it's.
Speaker C:It's difficult.
Speaker C:It's going to try to get that balance.
Speaker B:I think it's really hard.
Speaker B:I try to do that.
Speaker B:If I'm reviewing a thriller as well, I try not to talk about twists as well because I think people are waiting for it.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:As a reader, I will quite often, if I'm reading a thriller, I won't read the blurb.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Not knowing anything about it.
Speaker C:I think that's good because like I said, you're going to be looking for it otherwise.
Speaker C:And then I always worry that it's built up too much, the twist.
Speaker C:And then people are always going to be disappointed in the twist because it's just been.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's so hard, isn't it?
Speaker B:As I say, I think that's the one thing and it's quite hard.
Speaker B:So I think people, when they're sort of talking about thrillers can be harder in their reviews than other genres.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I really feel like it's a really hard genre to please people.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Oh, definitely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think that's the thing.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:I think I don't really read my review.
Speaker C:Like, I think when the Sisters came out, I read quite a lot of my reviews and it was like, oh, God.
Speaker C:Because obviously you're going to have such polarizing views and then it's very rare that everyone.
Speaker C:Obviously I don't think anyone always likes the same book, but it's.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think it was quite.
Speaker C:It was quite a dent, I think, to your confidence when you're starting out.
Speaker C:I was quite dented by now.
Speaker C:I'm a bit more like, you can't please everyone.
Speaker C:I understand that.
Speaker C:And you just have to.
Speaker C:You just have to write the book you want to write and not try not to think about it too much because I think it would stop you.
Speaker C:It would always paralyze you from writing because you'd be thinking what everyone was going to say, you know, it's like you have to always like drain that out.
Speaker C:You have to keep that noise out of your head.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was thinking back then, just so Catherine Newman, who wrote Sandwich, she was on the show last season and she says she always writes with a loving audience in mind.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So just I'm sure like your fans will love whatever you put out.
Speaker C:It's quite interesting because sometimes like some of the, like, if it's a critical review and there's not like if it's not a mean review but it's critical, sometimes it could be quite helpful.
Speaker C:You'll be like, oh, yeah, actually, maybe, maybe they've got a point about that sort of certain thing.
Speaker C:But yeah, I think that's the thing is if it's, if it's constructive criticism, which I think is always really, you know, that's good to have.
Speaker C:I think it makes me a better writer to have that.
Speaker C:And this is why I think my editors are great and you know, but yeah, so I do try to like, you want to listen because you want to sort of know what people want.
Speaker C:But I think you're right, you can't please everyone.
Speaker C:So someone's always going to be disappointed at what you've written, aren't they?
Speaker C:Because that's just the way it is.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, anything.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I mean, how many copies have you sold now and how long did you spend in the bestselling chart?
Speaker B:Was it 20 weeks?
Speaker B:So I think you're pleasing more.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker B:Than not.
Speaker B:Let's not worry too much.
Speaker B:So do you ever like, as you're sort of just going around, you know, day to day life, so you're saying about watching movies, do you ever sort of, you know, see something on the news or something and just saying, oh, and sort of thank you for later.
Speaker C:Yes, yeah, the news.
Speaker C:Or like sometimes like reading like newspaper reports or even having a conversation with my friend.
Speaker C:Like the Wrong Sister was based on a, a conversation I had with my friend who talked about her and her sister having like a, a life swap thing.
Speaker C:So her sister hasn't got children and her sister's a bit more, leads a bit more of a glamorous life.
Speaker C:And she was saying, oh yeah, we do it every year.
Speaker C:She comes and looks after the kids and I thought, oh, why didn't she come to look after the kids?
Speaker C:And something happened while she was looking up.
Speaker C:That's what gave me the idea for the Wrong Sister.
Speaker C:But also the twist of the Wrong sister was, was, was picked up from a newspaper report About a similar thing happening to.
Speaker C:Not a similar thing, but like a particular.
Speaker C:I can't say too much, I give it away, but there's a particular thing that happens which was.
Speaker C:Which is like something that happened in this newspaper report.
Speaker C:Like being quite vague about it.
Speaker B:I'm so curious.
Speaker B:And what I'm really curious to know is did the sisters read it and do they still have their life swap?
Speaker C:They do, but they're reading it.
Speaker C:They were like trying to work out, like, who was who, like.
Speaker C:Because obviously one of the husbands gets killed and they were like, oh, your husband.
Speaker C:No, it's not really.
Speaker C:It's not really.
Speaker C:It's not really you guys.
Speaker C:It's like they're made up characters just based on what you did.
Speaker C:I think they were.
Speaker C:That their husband was going to get like murdered or something.
Speaker C:They did it again.
Speaker C:So it's not going to happen.
Speaker B:It must be so funny when you have a friend who is writing a thriller.
Speaker B:Like, you must sort of think, oh, what have you seen in my life?
Speaker B:And so I've turned into.
Speaker C:I know it must be.
Speaker C:It must be weird because they must be thinking what all the conversations we've had.
Speaker C:They must be like.
Speaker C:Like one of my friend.
Speaker C:I wrote.
Speaker C:My friend was telling me about.
Speaker C:About her son.
Speaker C:He was very sensitive and he was like.
Speaker C:He was very upset about these lobsters that were being like.
Speaker C:Were in a tank on holiday.
Speaker C:And he started CR.
Speaker C:He was like about 8 or 9.
Speaker C:He was crying about these lobsters.
Speaker C:He was really upset.
Speaker C:And I used it in a book when I realized I'm forgetting that she told me the story.
Speaker C:She managed, oh, she goes, use the lobster story.
Speaker C:I was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker C:So I did.
Speaker C:You know, like, you sort of almost like you hear these things and you sort of build them up in your head and you forget who's told them to, you know, and then they read your book and they're like, oh, you've just used this story.
Speaker C:She didn't mind.
Speaker C:Luckily she didn't mind, like, used it.
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker C:So these little, little snippets of things.
Speaker B:Everyday things like quizzes for your friends.
Speaker B:Find out what part of your life made it into this book.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker C:That'S so brilliant.
Speaker B:So along the same lines, a listener question from Emma.
Speaker B:Who would like to know whether there are any books you've read with such great twists.
Speaker B:You thought, oh, I wish I'd come up with that one.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Oh, lots of them.
Speaker C:But I think one of the standouts for me is I Let yout go by Clare McIntosh, which has just got.
Speaker C:Have you ever read that?
Speaker C:Oh, it's brilliant.
Speaker C:And it's got such a brilliant twist like.
Speaker C:It's a brilliant twist and I never guessed it.
Speaker C:Yeah, that is one that I think.
Speaker C:I wish I'd thought of that.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's quite a few actually that I think.
Speaker C:Oh yeah.
Speaker C:Oh God, that's brilliant.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:Yeah, but that one is like a midway sort of twist that turns everything.
Speaker B:I've got it on my shelf.
Speaker B:I just looked back.
Speaker C:Oh, you need to read it.
Speaker C:Oh, it's so good.
Speaker B:Okay, I will pull that one off and I will read that one next.
Speaker B:So the New Neighbors is your 11th novel?
Speaker B:Yes, as I said, the first one I've read and I'm now looking forward to going back through your back catalogue.
Speaker B:Very excited about that.
Speaker B:When you look back at your career, I mean you've had such an incredible career to date.
Speaker B:Are there any pinch me moments that really jump out at you?
Speaker B:And if you could go back and chat to the Clare who was just sitting down to start writing the Sisters, what advice would you give her?
Speaker C:I think I would say to her, I think the main sort of jump, I think the first time it got onto the Sunday Times, you know when my book's got on the Sunday Times bestsellers list, like getting written in Judy being like.
Speaker C:Yeah, like the British Book Awards, you know, things like that.
Speaker C:Some lovely things.
Speaker C:I think I would say to her, like it's a bit of a roller coaster because my career didn't go like that.
Speaker C:It sort of went.
Speaker C:It's sort of the Sisters that okay, then the local good missing did quite well.
Speaker C:Then it sort of went down and it sort of went down quite low until like the couple of number nine when it went sort of back up again.
Speaker C:So I think I'd say, you know, ride it out, ride it out because it's not always, it's not going to be a necessarily a trajectory like that.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's a bit of a roller coaster.
Speaker C:I think authors have got long sort term careers.
Speaker C:That is going to happen.
Speaker C:You're going to get books that do better than others.
Speaker C:And I'd also say to her, don't read your reviews when the Sisters comes out because I think that like I think that's a shock to a new writer.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:Well, that was for me anyway.
Speaker C:Maybe I was a bit naive about.
Speaker C:About reviews.
Speaker C:You're Goodreads.
Speaker C:Don't look at Goodreads.
Speaker C:Maybe that's what I would say.
Speaker C:Don't look at Goodreads.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It is I mean, obviously that's what I do is, like, reviewing books.
Speaker B:And a few years ago, I made a decision not to share any sort of.
Speaker B:You know, when people say unpopular opinions, if I don't like a book, I don't talk about it because.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Because if I don't like it, it.
Speaker C:Might be somebody's favorite.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:It is hard, isn't it?
Speaker C:It is hard, I think.
Speaker C:And I think it's fine to have, you know, if it's sort of constructive or, like, there's a reason, because, you know, like, it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Like, now it's fine.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I think.
Speaker C:I think when you just get, like, you know, you just get the, like, horrible one star.
Speaker C:This is rubbish.
Speaker C:Whatever.
Speaker C:You just think, that's not very helpful, is it?
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:So anyone wants to read the book, like, well, then, well, why do you think it's rubbish?
Speaker C:Like, just say why.
Speaker C:If you don't like it, that's fine.
Speaker C:But to say why you don't like whatever, you know, like.
Speaker C:Yeah, because I don't.
Speaker C:You know, you can't.
Speaker C:But, yes, I think.
Speaker C:I think you do get more of a thicker skin as you get through it a bit more.
Speaker B:And I'm sure you get more love, I think.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think you do.
Speaker C:The more books you write, I think.
Speaker C:I think debuts can sometimes get a bit of flack, can't they?
Speaker C:Like debut writers, I think, just because it's their first book.
Speaker C:And I don't see, like, back at the Sisters.
Speaker C:And I would rewrite that book now, like, if I, you know, I would.
Speaker C:I see so many things wrong with it now, like, because, you know, I think I've learned so much since then, but.
Speaker C:And I think I speak.
Speaker C:It's a lot of friends of mine who are writers, and they all say the same.
Speaker C:They're like, yeah, but I wrote my first book, you know, I had to go back and change so many things about it.
Speaker B:Or you could revisit, Find out where they all are now.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Maybe do, like, a sequel to it, actually.
Speaker C:That would be quite good.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was my idea.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was a good idea.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I have them very rarely.
Speaker B:So the New Neighbours is out now.
Speaker B:It's in hardback.
Speaker B:It had me on the edge of my seat.
Speaker B:It's a fabulous read, one that I would highly recommend.
Speaker B:So do pick it up.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Before we move on to talk about your books that shaped your life, Claire, just remind listeners that all the books that we are talking about, including the ones that we've Mentioned already will be listed in the show notes, so they will be super easy to find.
Speaker B:So, Claire, how did you find picking your five?
Speaker C:It was really hard.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was really hard because.
Speaker C:Cheated slightly, I think.
Speaker C:Because I think any sort of.
Speaker C:Maybe a different downtrodden, different books.
Speaker C:But I think that was the ones I thought of when, like, straight away.
Speaker C:Those ones that came to my mind straight away, I thought the ones that obviously stayed in my.
Speaker C:In my mind.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Well, we're gonna get started then.
Speaker B:Let's hear about your first book.
Speaker C:Yeah, so it was the Famous Five series, because I think that was the first time.
Speaker C:Because I was obviously ready as a kid.
Speaker C:That was the first time.
Speaker C:I think I read, like, sort of mystery mystery books.
Speaker C:And I love the fact there was obviously kids and there was a dog and.
Speaker C:And like I said to you before, I can't remember any standout particular one, but I just remember reading the them as a kid and then going on to, like, the Secret Seven and the others.
Speaker C:But that was the first time I read, like, a murder.
Speaker C:Like a mystery.
Speaker C:Murders, but mysteries, you know, like, mysteries.
Speaker C:So I.
Speaker C:That's where my love of writing mysteries sort of stemmed from reading those books.
Speaker B:They were great, weren't they?
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Fran Littlewood, who's on the show as well, this series, she picked Malorie Towers.
Speaker B:And we're saying that was the first time Enid Blyton had been picked on this.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's the second time now, which is all.
Speaker B:But, I mean, I know she had her problems, like, you know.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:I think if I read them now, maybe I would be like, oh, but as a kid, you know, growing up in the 80s.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The Valley of Towers, and.
Speaker C:And, you know, they were all like.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was.
Speaker C:I mean, that was the sort of thing that most people read, wasn't it, like, back then, you know, it's like.
Speaker C:I was gonna say, I'm Judy Blue, but that was a bit later.
Speaker C:That was like more sort of like teenage.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think there are so many more now.
Speaker B:My daughter's really getting into.
Speaker B:She loves, you know, sort of mysteries and thrillers and things.
Speaker B:So she's 12 going on 13, but she loves.
Speaker B:And I was thinking, you've really grown up in the right time, because I think the Famous Five wouldn't have really cut it for you.
Speaker C:No, I know the same with my daughter.
Speaker C:She left the whole Murder Most Ladylike book.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:That's like.
Speaker C:She loved those.
Speaker C:And I was like, I would have loved Those, I'm sure, because boarding schools murder.
Speaker C:I mean, great.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's a perfect mix.
Speaker C:That's brilliant.
Speaker C:Yeah, she would have.
Speaker C:I would have loved those as a kid, so.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But my daughter did read Malory Towers and she did like it.
Speaker C:But I think she did say there's some sort of.
Speaker C:There's quite a few, you know, things in there that I think she was a bit like, oh, I can't believe that.
Speaker C:I said, yeah, you probably wouldn't get away with writing that now.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But, yeah.
Speaker B:Haven't stood the test of time, have they?
Speaker C:Not really, no.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker B:It's funny how we all have this, like, thing of like.
Speaker B:If my mum had said to me, you're going off to boarding school, I would have been devastated.
Speaker B:I know, but I couldn't get enough of reading about them.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:Amid, like, feasts and all these things.
Speaker C:I was a sim.
Speaker C:I was obsessed with like boarding school stories as well.
Speaker C:Like, just don't.
Speaker C:Yeah, but, yeah, same.
Speaker C:I would hate to have gone to boarding school.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I would have been like, no, I don't want to go.
Speaker C:But, yeah, but, yeah, same.
Speaker C:I don't know what it is.
Speaker C:Maybe it's because there's stories about parents on there.
Speaker C:Like, it's stories about kids doing things and parents.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Having a bit of agency maybe.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I was thinking, like the worst witch and like, you know, Harry Potter and things.
Speaker B:I love the worst witch.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Mildred Hubble identity.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, that was brilliant.
Speaker C:I did love that.
Speaker C:And then I did read Harry Potter too, but I was a bit older when Harry Potter.
Speaker C:I was in my 20s by then.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But yeah, yeah, funny.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, we're going to move on to your second book choice then.
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Let me catch you overweight.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:My second book choice is.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Rachel's Holiday by Maren Keys.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I've got my little list here, but yeah, that's fine.
Speaker C:So, yeah, so Rachel's Holiday.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I really started off wanting to write the sort of books at Maren Keys.
Speaker C:I think that's the sort of books that I would.
Speaker C:Thought I would like to write because I just love.
Speaker C:I went through a phase of reading all these sort of books and particular one is just still one of my favourite books ever.
Speaker C:It's just so brilliant, isn't it?
Speaker C:Have you ever read it?
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:Oh, my God, it's so good.
Speaker C:It's so good.
Speaker C:I read it.
Speaker C:I read it back then and I also read it again a few years ago because I wanted to read the sequel and I want to read the first one again because she's written a sequel and oh, it's just brilliant.
Speaker C:It's so funny.
Speaker C:Like, it's laugh right loud funny.
Speaker C:Like it's so hard to write comedy, isn't it?
Speaker C:So hard?
Speaker C:And she does it so brilliantly and just.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:What I love about it is basically about this woman called Rachel.
Speaker C:And she's been told she has to go into like, like a sort of rehab because they.
Speaker C:Because her parents think she's got like a sort of drug problem.
Speaker C:She's like, no, I haven't.
Speaker C:And all the way through it, she was told from her, like, first person all the way through it, you sort of believe her.
Speaker C:Like, oh, no, she's fine.
Speaker C:What are they talking about?
Speaker C:And then as she comes to realization of her behavior, we start to, you know, it's so good.
Speaker C:It's so clever.
Speaker C:But I think that was a sort of.
Speaker C:I started to write, like, read books in first person and love first person books.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's always.
Speaker C:That's a really special book for me.
Speaker C:That's just brilliant.
Speaker C:It's just got everything that, you know, want in a book.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, I definitely recommend reading it.
Speaker B:I need to.
Speaker B:This is the third time it's been picked now.
Speaker B:So Beth o' Leary picked this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Clare Poulet picked it as well as well.
Speaker B:So I told them I would read it and I haven't.
Speaker B:And it's so good.
Speaker B:It's a big chunk, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's a big, big book.
Speaker B:I've got it up here.
Speaker C:Well, it goes really quickly.
Speaker C:Like, it's just.
Speaker C:It goes like it's.
Speaker C:Because the way it's wr.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It looks big there, but it honestly doesn't feel it when he says, you know, it's one of those books.
Speaker C:You read it really quickly.
Speaker C:Like you'd read it like within a day or two.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:So you just keep reading it.
Speaker C:It's just written.
Speaker C:It's like she's talking to you.
Speaker C:She's so funny.
Speaker C:Like, Rachel's so funny and warm.
Speaker C:Like, you know, it's just.
Speaker C:It's just got some brilliant.
Speaker C:There's this one.
Speaker C:There was one line about this when she goes to the hairdressers that like.
Speaker C:Because it's all about her sisters and she's got these sisters.
Speaker C:It's just so like the whole family dynamic.
Speaker C:Because I love.
Speaker C:And she's.
Speaker C:She's gone to the hairdressers and she comes back looking like.
Speaker C:And her sisters basically say she was like blended breath in this way actress.
Speaker C:And it's just.
Speaker C:As I was reading it again, I remembered it from the first time I was reading it again.
Speaker C:I was laughing and my daughter was like, what are you laughing at?
Speaker C:Oh, it's just so funny.
Speaker C:Just the dialogue between her and her sister.
Speaker C:It's just so clever, honestly.
Speaker C:Yeah, it would feel really quick when you read it.
Speaker C:It wouldn't feel like a long book that you're like, oh, it's just great.
Speaker C:I wish I could read it.
Speaker C:I wish I could read it again not knowing anything about it.
Speaker B:Love those books.
Speaker B:I wish I could read it for the first time again.
Speaker B:So great, isn't it?
Speaker C:Yeah, so great.
Speaker B:I've been thinking, actually, because I have got a few books coming up that I know are going to be.
Speaker B:And I've read a few sad ones.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, I'm going to need something to balance.
Speaker B:So actually I'm going to.
Speaker B:I'll take that one out.
Speaker C:It has got.
Speaker C:I did cry, actually, at Rachel's holiday.
Speaker C:It was a little sad bit as well because it's quite like her realization and her, like, what's going on for her.
Speaker C:It's quite like touching, but.
Speaker C:But it's sort of like that happy, sad sort of way.
Speaker C:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker C:It's not like depressing, it's uplifting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you said that it's the sort of book that you would like to write.
Speaker B:Like, would you.
Speaker B:Would you ever play with other genres or do you think?
Speaker C:I just don't think.
Speaker C:I think to be able to write like Maronkey, she's so talented.
Speaker C:I couldn't do.
Speaker C:I couldn't write comedy.
Speaker C:Like, I tried.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:I just didn't.
Speaker C:I'm just obviously not funny enough.
Speaker C:Like, Maronkeys is funny, isn't she?
Speaker C:She's just got that great, you know, Irish.
Speaker C:She's just got that Irish humor.
Speaker C:She's just got that warm.
Speaker C:I don't know, she just.
Speaker C:Even just like hearing her talk, she's just brilliantly funny.
Speaker C:So I sort of realized that that wasn't going to be something that I could do.
Speaker C:So then I read.
Speaker C:So I read the Moving Finger by Agatha Christie.
Speaker C:I really like.
Speaker C:Yes, I'd read quite a few Agatha Christie books, but what I liked about that one, it was like told from.
Speaker C:It was told in the first person and it was told like from.
Speaker C:From, like, just like someone, you know, but Ms.
Speaker C:Mop goes to a village or whatever.
Speaker C:And I don't know if Miss Wall was actually in that one.
Speaker C:I can't remember.
Speaker C:But it's not.
Speaker C:It's not Miss Marple who's uncovering.
Speaker C:It's this.
Speaker C:This guy who's, like, in the village.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And it's all about, like, letters, poison pen letters.
Speaker C:But it's really.
Speaker C:I liked the voice and the way that it was written in the first person.
Speaker C:I thought, well, that's really good how you can have, like a book, like a sort of detective, but not with an actual detective like it, you know, that was just like a normal random member of the village.
Speaker C:And that's why I sort of thought, well, I quite like to do something right in first sort of crime sort of book that wasn't like, peace procedural.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So, yes, that's.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That's why that book is probably one of my favourite Agatha Christie books.
Speaker B:So that's actually your third choice, isn't it?
Speaker B:The moving fingers, your third choice?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:I've never picked that one up and actually, I think I'm.
Speaker B:I think I've only ever read Murder on the Orient Express.
Speaker C:Oh, really?
Speaker C:So I've not read that one.
Speaker C:Actually.
Speaker C:I've not read that one because I think it's because I know.
Speaker C:Because the twist is.
Speaker C:I remember watching the film and know the twist.
Speaker C:Once you know the twist, it's not.
Speaker B:Gonna be because I can't remember it.
Speaker B:Oh, can't you?
Speaker B:Oh, this is the other really good thing about me.
Speaker B:I have such a bad.
Speaker B:So when I say, oh, I'd love to read books for the second.
Speaker B:You know, for the first time.
Speaker B:Again.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have such a bad memory that.
Speaker C:That's good.
Speaker C:I mean, Mason's.
Speaker C:I'm not that.
Speaker C:But because of this particular twist, I won't say.
Speaker C:Just in case anyone hasn't read it and they want to read it.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I won't say why I remember it, but maybe afterwards I'll tell you, I'll have to go and read it again.
Speaker B:That's so bad, isn't it?
Speaker B:Have you ever read Gentlemen and Players by Joanne Harris?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:Oh, no, I haven't.
Speaker B:That has got a twist in it.
Speaker B:And I have read that book twice.
Speaker B:And the second time I went to read it, I was.
Speaker B:I'm going to keep an eye out and.
Speaker B:Because she will have dropped, like, hints.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I got to the twist.
Speaker B:I was like, the second time.
Speaker C:That's so good, though.
Speaker C:That's good because you could enjoy it the second time.
Speaker B:Like a goldfish.
Speaker C: t were like done in the early: Speaker C:I don't know if you've ever seen those.
Speaker C:Like, they were like.
Speaker C:Yeah, done.
Speaker C:It had like Julia McKenzie who plays Ms.
Speaker C:Marple.
Speaker C:And we, we watched those.
Speaker C:We've watched them.
Speaker C:About five years ago we watched them again and we can't remember the Twitter star.
Speaker C:So we watched them again.
Speaker C:Can you have who did it?
Speaker C:We're like, no, I can't booted it.
Speaker C:But we're quite pleased about that because it means that we could watch them again.
Speaker C:So I don't keep it in either there, only that one.
Speaker C:That's the only one I've ever.
Speaker B:You have to tell me afterwards.
Speaker C:I'll tell you afterwards.
Speaker C:I'll tell you afterwards.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is the first time Agatha Christie has been picked on this series.
Speaker B:I am so surprised.
Speaker B:When I started it, I wrote a list of who I thought would be on there.
Speaker B:And so, yes, you.
Speaker B:You got there first, so well done.
Speaker C:Oh, okay, that's good.
Speaker B:Okay, let's move on to book number four, then, Claire.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:So Secret History.
Speaker C:I think this has probably come up before, hasn't it?
Speaker B:Only once before.
Speaker C:Oh, that's it.
Speaker C:So I read that back in.
Speaker C:I remember I was working as a young.
Speaker C:I was in my 20s, I was working in London.
Speaker C:I remember reading on the tube and just loving it.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I just loved everything about it.
Speaker C:I love, I love that whole group friendship.
Speaker C:That's sort of someone trying to invigor themselves into someone's friendship group.
Speaker C:You know, sort of admiring the.
Speaker C:Sort of.
Speaker C:Have you read the book?
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker C:Admiring.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:Admiring.
Speaker C:Like this is about this guy and he sort of admires this sort of close knit group of students who are like learning Greek and he's sort of classics.
Speaker C:He's sort of quite interested in them and everything.
Speaker C:So he tries to sort of befriend them, to get in with them.
Speaker C:And then things obviously take dark turns.
Speaker C:And I read it back then and I also read it again last year because my daughter.
Speaker C:I want to take my daughter to read it and I want to read it again as well so that we could talk about it.
Speaker C:Because I thought there's little things I couldn't remember and it's just as brilliant as I remember.
Speaker C:I don't know what it is about it again.
Speaker C:It's sort of first person, but I love the Heart.
Speaker C:Even though it's like.
Speaker C:It is a sort of thriller, I suppose, mystery, but.
Speaker C:But it's sort of.
Speaker C:It's A bit more the literary end, maybe, but it's just.
Speaker C:It's just a sort of brilliant book.
Speaker C:I think it's just the characterization is brilliant.
Speaker C:The way she writes is brilliant.
Speaker C:She just.
Speaker C:She explains things.
Speaker C:I think she makes you feel like you can sort of like some outsider trying to get in with a particular group.
Speaker C:I think that, like, resonated with me.
Speaker C:So I just think that was.
Speaker C:Yeah, I started.
Speaker C:I still loved it, but I read it again.
Speaker C:I still thought it was just as good as I remembered because sometimes you.
Speaker C:You might read a book and then you read it again, you're like, wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Quite as good as I was.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Such a shame, isn't it, when that happens?
Speaker B:So Fran Littlewood picked this one as well.
Speaker B:And I said to her, yes, I somehow feel a little intimidated by it.
Speaker B:And she was like, don't introduce brilliant.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker C:I don't read.
Speaker C:I know I'm not hybrid.
Speaker C:And anyway, I don't read.
Speaker C:Like, I just, you know, I like books that are, you know, but easy to read.
Speaker C:You know, like, just like you could just turn the pages and.
Speaker C:And that's like that.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:There's a bit of, like, background to Greek, but I don't know anything about Greek mythology or anything like that.
Speaker C:Whereas my daughter did.
Speaker C:Did it at a level.
Speaker C:So she's a bit more.
Speaker C:She knew a bit more about it, but it doesn't matter that I didn't, you know, in.
Speaker C:Because it touches upon it very sort of briefly anyway.
Speaker C:It doesn't go.
Speaker C:It's more about the characterization of this.
Speaker C:Of this guy trying to get in with this group of friends at this prestigious sort of like college.
Speaker C:I think that's what's good about it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:And just the.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The characterization of the different friends.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:For some reason, I feel like it's an autumn y read for me.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is actually.
Speaker C:And I did read it actually in the autumn.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is more like that.
Speaker C:It's not one you can't wait to cut up, but it's one of those.
Speaker C:You just of kind.
Speaker C:I can't wait to read it.
Speaker C:Like, it's got this sort of hold on you when you start reading it.
Speaker C:It's brilliant.
Speaker B:Oh, I love that.
Speaker B:I love it when you get that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sneak off and read books as well.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know.
Speaker C:I love that feeling as well.
Speaker C:It's like, brilliant.
Speaker B:I think I'm gonna make it then.
Speaker B:My book club choice for October, I think.
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:I'm have a pressure of having to read it for the book club as well.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker C:That's what.
Speaker C:That's what I.
Speaker C:I'm in a book club and that's what I do.
Speaker C:But the books I want to read.
Speaker C:But, like, you sort of like, you.
Speaker C:You haven't got time to, like, you know, but then you have to.
Speaker C:Then you think, well, I got to read it because it's, you know, for book club.
Speaker B:So I'll let you know how I get on with that one then.
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker B:Okay, we're gonna move on to your last choice.
Speaker B:Another one I haven't read, actually.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Oh, this is the Magpies on Mark Edwards.
Speaker C:So this was one of the first books I read which was like.
Speaker C:I suppose you'd call it domestic.
Speaker C:Domestic noir.
Speaker C:So it's about a couple who move into a basement flat and the neighbours.
Speaker C:So it's a neighbour's book, actually.
Speaker C:The neighbours upstairs are just horrendous.
Speaker C:They're just horrendous.
Speaker C:And it's like how this affects their relationship.
Speaker C:So it's a very good characterization about relationship.
Speaker C:It's also a thriller because these psychopaths basically upstairs are just awful.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:It's so.
Speaker C:I think it's the first time I read a book that was, again, a book that was like a psychological thriller that was about, like, domesticated people.
Speaker C:Like, it could be anybody.
Speaker C:It could be a friend.
Speaker C:It could be you.
Speaker C:It could be.
Speaker C:And I thought this, again, this is the sort of book.
Speaker C:This is the sort of area I'd like to write here.
Speaker C:Like, you know, families, couples, friends, you know, that.
Speaker C:That, like everyday people.
Speaker C:But yes, it's very.
Speaker C:It's very good book.
Speaker C:Very clever book.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:I have to check it out.
Speaker C:I definitely recommend.
Speaker B:Yeah, I have to check it out.
Speaker B:And I love, as I said earlier, I love it when it's sort of, you know, believable as sort of, you know, people around you.
Speaker B:Because it's sort of.
Speaker C:Of.
Speaker B:It really gets in.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's when you sort of think this could happen to.
Speaker C:Because I think it's when I realized that actually you didn't have to have a detective in it to write a book, a thriller.
Speaker C:It didn't have to be police procedural.
Speaker C:You could.
Speaker C:It could just be about, you know, a family or a couple relationship and something bad happening to them.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think that's sort of.
Speaker C:Yeah, that and.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was one of the books I read that I thought, yeah, that does.
Speaker C:That's the book I want to write.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:So did you read this before you had started writing then?
Speaker C:I think I was reading it while I was writing the Sisters, so I think it was.
Speaker C:Sisters isn't really that domestic.
Speaker C:It gets my books become a bit more domestic after.
Speaker C:So it was around the same time, because I'm sitting the Sisters.
Speaker C:When I started writing that.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was a bit like I wasn't quite sure what I was writing.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:I was almost too scared to go into the real thriller zone because I thought, I haven't got a detective.
Speaker C:It's just about these people live in this house.
Speaker C:And then it was like.
Speaker C:As I started to read other things around that, like the other, you know, genre, like Mark Edwards, I thought, oh, actually, it doesn't have.
Speaker C:You don't have to have a detective.
Speaker C:It doesn't have to be, you know, like a Miss Marple person coming in and, you know, it could just be something that.
Speaker C:So, yes, I think that's.
Speaker C:I sort of dipped my toe into it with the Sisters and then obviously the next books got more.
Speaker C:More darker and I think more thrillery.
Speaker C:But, yeah, the Sisters was a bit of a.
Speaker C:I wasn't quite sure what I was writing type thing.
Speaker C:I was almost too scared to go fully fledged thriller.
Speaker C:So it's more mystery, sort of psychological, I suppose.
Speaker C:It's quite psychological, isn't it?
Speaker C:But it's not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, there's not like loads of bodies.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's not loads of murders or anything.
Speaker C:It's more just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's so interesting you say that, because if I picked it up, would I have known it was your debut without knowing I was like, really?
Speaker B:No, I think, yeah, I probably would have.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I just thought you tried something slightly different, you know, but, yeah, don't think.
Speaker B:You know, you're saying you held back.
Speaker B:It's still a great read.
Speaker B:Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I think I would have had more like.
Speaker C:More like death and destruction in their past than there was and things like that.
Speaker C:Yeah, there would have been more like, there's probably been a murder.
Speaker C:And there was.
Speaker C:I can't.
Speaker C:I actually can't remember.
Speaker C:I don't think there was a murder in it, actually.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I can't remember anything.
Speaker B:Sometimes I'll look at books on my shelves and I'll be like, I know I loved it, but I can't remember what it's about.
Speaker C:I know, I know.
Speaker C:It's so weird because when you're Younger.
Speaker C:I remember when I was younger, I remembered every single book.
Speaker C:Like, I remember.
Speaker C:I remember my mum used to be like, I can't remember what that book's called.
Speaker C:I've been thinking why.
Speaker C:I can remember every book and what it's called.
Speaker C:And then as you get older, you read more and more and you just.
Speaker C:Your brain just can't remember everything, can it?
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:That's brilliant.
Speaker B:In a way.
Speaker B:It's annoying for, like, all these new ones.
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker B:I've never seen this before.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:I'm scared that I might end up reading a book that I've read before and not realize I've read it before.
Speaker C:Like, my mum's done that.
Speaker C:She's been like, she's such.
Speaker C:Halfway through, she's like, I've read this.
Speaker C:I've had you.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:I haven't got to that.
Speaker B:Like, would they change covers sometimes?
Speaker B:Do you know, like, how I can have, like, a different cover or whatever?
Speaker C:And I'm like, yeah, that's true.
Speaker C:Or like an American one's got slightly different.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love that one.
Speaker B:The different covers.
Speaker B:I think that's so interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know.
Speaker C:It's so interesting when you see that and you see how they've done different things to it and you think, oh, yeah, the same book, but completely different.
Speaker B:Completely different.
Speaker B:So, oh, we keep going off on, like, these little random.
Speaker B:I know, I love it.
Speaker B:No, I love it.
Speaker B:So I've got the last difficult question for you.
Speaker B:If you could only read one of these books again, which one would it be?
Speaker C:Well, I read A Secret History again recently, and I read.
Speaker C:So I read Rachel's Holiday again recently.
Speaker C:I probably read the Magpies again by Mark Edwards, actually, because I haven't read that again since.
Speaker C:Since I read it the first time.
Speaker C:So, yes, I probably would read that again.
Speaker C:Maybe a figure I've watched recently, so all the others, and I don't think I'd want to read the Famous Five now.
Speaker C:I think I'll probably not.
Speaker B:Even if I gave you all 21 of them?
Speaker C:I don't think so.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I'd be quite interested.
Speaker C:I'd probably be like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker C:Like, I feel like.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's like when you're charged, it's like, different, isn't it?
Speaker C:So, yes, I think.
Speaker C:I think, yeah, Mark Edwards 1.
Speaker C:I think in that place.
Speaker C:I'd like to read that again.
Speaker C:So she says it's about neighbours and why it's got neighbours in it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think you should do it.
Speaker B:I think you should do it.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Claire, it has been so lovely.
Speaker B:I have absolutely loved chat chatting to you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me on.
Speaker C:It's been lovely.
Speaker B:It's been so fun.
Speaker A:How wonderful was that?
Speaker A:Honestly, I could have sat chatting with Claire all day.
Speaker B:I loved that.
Speaker A:While I was late to the party with her books, I'm now happily working my way through her backlist and really enjoying them.
Speaker A:I'm also happy to report that since recording this episode, I have now finally read Rachel's Holiday, and I loved it every bit as much as Claire Beth o' Leary and Claire Pooley told me I would.
Speaker A:I really hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as I have.
Speaker A:I'll be back next week chatting to another author about the books that have shaped their life, and I really hope that you'll join me for that episode, too.
Speaker A:In the meantime, I'd be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe, and most importantly, tell all your friends about it.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening and see you next week.
