Team Frank or Team Gabriel? Delving into Broken Country with Claire Leslie Hall
Oh my goodness, I do feel like the luckiest bookworm sometimes! Getting to chat with all these incredible authors is such a privilege, and today, having the brilliant Clare Leslie Hall on the show has been an absolute joy from start to finish.
If you haven't yet picked up her captivating novel, Broken Country, I'm going to have to politely beg you to grab a copy and dive in this summer! Seriously, you won't regret it. I've seen it pop up on so many "Best of 2025" lists (including my very own, of course!). I've actually read it twice and could happily pick it up again – it's just that good.
In this episode, Clare gives us the inside scoop on the inspiration behind Broken Country, and shares some fascinating insights into her writing journey. I have to say, I feel incredibly thankful that Clare ignored the advice to give up on this masterpiece; it truly is such a special book, and I'm so glad she persevered with it!
As always, we also delve into the five books that have shaped Clare's life. What a fantastic list it was (and yes, she managed to sneak in a few extra recommendations too – because you can never have too many book suggestions, right?!).
I Capture The Castle by Dodie Smith
All The Pretty Horses by Cormac McCarthy
The Great Gatsby by Scott Fitzgerald
Other books mentioned:
The Paper Palace by Miranda Cowley Heller
The Secret History by Donna Tartt
I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Clare was just so wonderful to chat to, I love how obvious it becomes just how important her characters are to her.
If you're loving Best Book Forward, please do take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts – it makes such a difference! And, most importantly, please tell all your bookish friends about us!
See you next week for more bookish chat.
Transcript
Welcome back to Best Book Forward.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Helen, and this is the podcast where we delve into the literary landscapes that have shaped our favourite authors lives.
Speaker A:Think Desert Island Discs.
Speaker A:But for book lovers.
Speaker A:Oh my goodness.
Speaker A:I'm absolutely thrilled to welcome the incredibly talented Claire Leslie hall to the show today.
Speaker A:Now, I'm sure you've heard me going on and on about her absolutely gorgeous book, Broken country, and fingers crossed I've already twisted your arm enough to make you grab a copy.
Speaker A:In this episode, Claire shares her journey and all the heart and hard work that went into bringing Broken country into our lives.
Speaker A:We had such a great chat about her characters and how the story unfolded for her.
Speaker A:And yes, we even asked the all important question, is Claire team Frank or team Gabriel?
Speaker A:Of course, later on in the show we also discovered the five books that shaped Clothes Claire's life.
Speaker A:And she also managed to sneak a couple of bonus ones in for you for good measure.
Speaker A:But that's not all.
Speaker A:We also had a very special furry guest pop by during our chat.
Speaker A:The one and only Magnus, Claire's dog.
Speaker A:And get this, Magnus was actually responsible for sparking that initial seed of inspiration for Broken country.
Speaker A:So it felt right that he dropped by with a little bark.
Speaker A:Now, I'm not fluent in dog, but I'm pretty sure he was saying, make sure you buy my mum's book.
Speaker A:Anyway, I hope you've got your cup of tea all ready as we're ready to welcome Clare to the show.
Speaker A:Clare, welcome and thank you so much for joining me on Best Book Forward today.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:I'm really excited to talk to you.
Speaker A:I'm so excited to be chatting to you about your beautiful novel, Broken country, which is currently taking the world by storm.
Speaker A:It's won my heart as well.
Speaker A:So I'd love if you could start off by telling listeners a little bit about what the story is all about.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, sure.
Speaker B: all Dorset village during the: Speaker B:And it's really the story of Beth, a young woman who's completely torn between two different men, her farmer husband, Frank, and her first love, Gabriel.
Speaker B:And what happens when Gabriel, now a rich and successful author, returns to the village unexpectedly and turns her life upside down?
Speaker B:So it's got a courtroom drama in it and a mystery, but I would describe it really a novel that's primarily about love in all its forms.
Speaker B:It's about first love, married love, sibling love and a mother's love for her son.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And it is a brilliant read.
Speaker A:I've read it twice now and I loved it both times, so.
Speaker A:So I'd love to hear from you, Claire, where the very first seed of an idea came from for Broken Country.
Speaker A:What was the initial spark that started the story for you?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, funnily enough, it was a moment of horror.
Speaker B:So we live in a very old farmhouse surrounded by fields and it was lambing season.
Speaker B:I've got three children and we'd.
Speaker B:There's quite a big age gap.
Speaker B:And we bought the little youngest boy a puppy.
Speaker B:And one day my husband was running out in the fields with his beloved puppy and the farmer threatened to shoot him because he sort of ran into a field full of lambs.
Speaker B:And that didn't happen, thank goodness.
Speaker B:But what did happen was that within minutes of my husband telling me what had happened, this very vivid love triangle just popped into my head.
Speaker B:And I could see a farmer and his wife and in their field of sheep.
Speaker B:And I could imagine a young boy running towards him looking for his lost dog.
Speaker B:And behind him was his father.
Speaker B:And for some strange reason I had the thought that the boy reminded the couple of the son they'd recently lost.
Speaker B:And I could also feel that there might be this very strong physical attraction between the boy's father and the farmer's wife.
Speaker B:And it was just, it was a thunderbolt moment which I've never really had one before and I would love to have one right now.
Speaker B:But it just came, not fully formed, but this just very, very, very strong idea and I couldn't wait to write it.
Speaker A:I think that is just so amazing.
Speaker A:I often think I would love to spend some time in authors minds, like just how these ideas come.
Speaker A:Like, it's just so incredible that that moment could spark such, you know, an incredible love story.
Speaker A:I think that's amazing.
Speaker A:Something that also just when you say that about that scene, because in the book, when I first read it, I was like, you show so clearly how much it means to the farm because you could read it and sort of think, oh my God, that's awful.
Speaker A:That poor child, that poor dog.
Speaker A:But you actually see it from the farmer's point of view, the love of their livestock and their land and you know how devastating it is for them.
Speaker A:So I thought you did a really brilliant job of sort of putting that side of the story across as well.
Speaker A:Something I hadn't really considered before.
Speaker B:I'm so glad you say that because actually I. I did work quite hard on that.
Speaker B:And I think when I was thinking about this, what nearly happened with the dog, I was obviously thinking about it as a pet owner and about how devastated our son would be.
Speaker B:But I was also starting to think about the farmers.
Speaker B:And it made me realize that there was a real disconnect between sort of ex Londoners like myself who are moving into this farming country, and then the rural old guard like.
Speaker B:Like the farmer who owns the land around our house, who'd lived here forever.
Speaker B:And that was something that I really wanted to explore.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I know it's, you know, a lot of readers absolutely hate to see a dog killed.
Speaker B:You know, we know that.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And so that very initial scene is one of the very opening scenes in the book.
Speaker B:And it always stayed the same because the book changed a lot over many drafts.
Speaker B:And I work very hard because I. I hope that you realize how absolutely devastating it is for the farmer and his wife to see their lambs attacked.
Speaker B:So I'm glad you picked up on that because that's definitely what I intended.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I thought it was really, really interesting.
Speaker A:Okay, so the setting of Broken country is just beautiful.
Speaker A:As someone who adores Dorset, I was thrilled when I saw that that's where it was all unfolding.
Speaker A:What I love about the setting is how it plays such an important part of the story.
Speaker A:You know, I think you really capture sort of that life.
Speaker A:You know, you've got Gabriel's family, who have this big house, which contrasts with Frank and Beth and their sort of more humble backgrounds.
Speaker A:You have everyone in the village who knows each other and what everyone's doing, which can be lovely, but also has its problems.
Speaker A:Dorset is obviously your home and holds a special place in your heart, but could you talk a bit to us about why you chose it as the backdrop and how it shaped the story you wanted to tell?
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:What I really wanted with Broken Country, I wanted the Dorset landscape, which is my own landsc, to become a character in its own right.
Speaker B:And the same with the village.
Speaker B:And I actually based the village, Hempstone, on a village called Senley, which is where my youngest was at primary school.
Speaker B:And although I don't think it's exactly the same as the village in the book, it still has that same feeling of having a primary school with a village shop opposite.
Speaker B:Lots and lots of really big houses and then lots of much more ordinary farming folk like the farming folk that I created.
Speaker B:And I loved the idea that a village would be quite claustrophobic.
Speaker B:Everybody Helps everybody else.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, what you see with the Johnson family.
Speaker B:You know, Frank's out there giving parcels of meat to the people who need it, but also what a hotbed of gossip it is, and not the right place to have a secret love affair.
Speaker B:So there was that.
Speaker B:And then with the landscape, I.
Speaker B:Even though I live in this incredibly beautiful setting, I think I felt I was quite guilty of just walking the dog without noticing it properly.
Speaker B:And what really changed everything for me was I spent a lot of time with farmers when I was researching the novel, because even though there's tractors bombing up and down my lane every day, I didn't really know very much about farming.
Speaker B:So I spent a lot of time.
Speaker B:I went.
Speaker B:I learned how to milk cows, and I went harvesting.
Speaker B:Spent a whole day with a farmer and this combine harvester.
Speaker B:And one of the best things I did was I stayed with a couple on a small holding in Kent, and they were just so obsessed with the land and its wildlife.
Speaker B:It was absolutely a way of life to them.
Speaker B:And it was so much more than that, really.
Speaker B:I don't think they could have ever pictured themselves doing anything else.
Speaker B:And that inspired an awful lot of Frankenbach.
Speaker B:And I feel that I really noticed how beautiful the landscape was and how these farmers, in the midst of all their toil, would suddenly sort of stop and say, look at that.
Speaker B:And it would be a fox cub or it would be a bird soaring into the sky.
Speaker B:So I. I felt how their deep connection to nature and how I kind of wanted to reflect that, particularly through birth, actually, because that's the journey that she goes on.
Speaker A:And it's, I think, something that we all do.
Speaker A:We did at the weekend.
Speaker A:So I live in Marlowe, so on the river.
Speaker A:And I was out walking the dog with my husband on Sunday, and I just stopped.
Speaker A:I was like, look how beautiful it is.
Speaker A:Sometimes you just forget, don't you?
Speaker A:It's like your.
Speaker A:Your home.
Speaker A:You walk around, you forget to sort of stop and look at it all.
Speaker A:I love the way Beth sees the land and, like, you know, their special tree and things.
Speaker A:I thought it's like just.
Speaker A:You could really visualize it, but you can also tell how important it is to them, which I just loved.
Speaker A:It was really special.
Speaker B:Oh, good.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Let's talk about the shape of the story before we start talking about some of the characters.
Speaker A:So we know from the start we're in a love story, There's a love triangle, and we know it's all leading towards a murder trial.
Speaker A:You beautifully weave Together, alternating timelines, which really helps us to understand the characters.
Speaker A:Having read Broken country twice now, I was captivated by how the story unfolds and the layers of the secrets were all revealed.
Speaker A:Could you give us a little peek into your planning process for the book?
Speaker A:Did you always have that structure in mind from the beginning, or did it really evolve as you wrote?
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, I wish I was more of a planner.
Speaker B:It really evolved as I wrote.
Speaker B:And let me tell you, I don't think 20 drafts is probably under underestimating.
Speaker B:I mean, it just changed so, so much.
Speaker B:The love triangle was always the same.
Speaker B:I think very early on, I had the two timelines and what I wanted.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:It's when Gabriel and Beth first meet as teenagers.
Speaker B: And then the next chapter is: Speaker B:So what I wanted with the two timelines, certainly in the first section of the book, is, is for the reader hopefully, to feel the sort of dichotomy that Beth is in herself.
Speaker B: very passionate love story in: Speaker B: then, hey, Presta, you're in: Speaker B:So I hope this sort of.
Speaker B:That element of confusion came across by doing the timelines in that way.
Speaker B:But in terms of the trial and the opening, the prologue, when you know that a man has died, that came quite late on the.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes I found the book very hard.
Speaker B:It initially was in a contemporary setting and it didn't feel quite right, but I couldn't work out why.
Speaker B: idea, I think it's got to be: Speaker B:And that really changed everything for me.
Speaker B:And that that opening prologue where it says the farmer's dead and everybody wants to know who killed him.
Speaker B:I've got that wrong.
Speaker B:But anyway, something like that, that just came to me out of the blue.
Speaker B:We were on holiday, and I had had a pause from writing Broken country because it was hard.
Speaker B:And I just woke up and thought, oh, my God, this is it.
Speaker B:And I just sat down and wrote that page, and it never changed.
Speaker B:And it sort of set up the whole thing.
Speaker B: ot the trial and it's got the: Speaker B:So the shape of the story, the reveals, they just Came with a lot of rewriting.
Speaker A:I think it's really interesting.
Speaker A:Also, I hear a lot of authors talking differently, so you have some who are, like, real planners.
Speaker A:But I do hear a lot of people who, you know, say how story evolves and, you know, how many drafts and going back and then figuring things out.
Speaker A:And I was saying this to somebody the other day, and I was like, I sometimes think when books are like that for authors and really hard for them to sort of pull the story together, that's what makes it so effortless.
Speaker A:Effortless for us as readers, because you've come to the right sort of storyline, you've done all the hard work for us, so we can just sort of be swept along with the way the story was meant to be, the one that we would feel and connect with.
Speaker A:So maybe for you and your 20 drafts, it's probably not so much fun, but for us, it's wonderful.
Speaker B:Oh, no, I love hearing that.
Speaker B:And I. I think you might be right, actually.
Speaker B:Someone asked me this question.
Speaker B:What would you change about Broken country if you could?
Speaker B:And I think I wouldn't change anything, but that's because I did a lot of change.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And, you know, I think it did end up being exactly the book that it needed to be.
Speaker B:But, my goodness, I. I went through some quite painful processes doing it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it sounds like it sounds.
Speaker A:But as I say, I guess also because it's such a hugely emotional book as well, that I think, you know, in order for us to feel those emotions, we had to really believe everything that's going on and sort of have characters that we connect with and storylines that we could.
Speaker A:You know, maybe we wouldn't do the same things, but we could understand what they're doing and why.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I can't think of anything I would change about it.
Speaker A:I mean, as I say, I've read it twice, and I could happily read it again.
Speaker B:So I love hearing that.
Speaker A:Okay, let's talk about this intense first love between Beth and Gabriel, which I thought you captured so beautifully.
Speaker A:It's that sort of heady mix of excitement and longing, you know, even the heartbreak that comes despite their very different backgrounds.
Speaker A:You could really see the connection, the shared dreams that made their relationship so believable.
Speaker A:So believable.
Speaker A:I think also, given all the circumstances, I could see how Beth would be so tempted to take a second chance on first love, even though she's so aware of, you know, the risks and the damage that it could cause.
Speaker A:How was it for you to write those relationships and Those really powerful feelings that she's.
Speaker A:She's going through.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I think I just loved writing them.
Speaker B:I knew who Beth was from again, unusually.
Speaker B:So I had her interior the moment she came into my head.
Speaker B:And I knew what I think I like when I'm starting a novel is to have a big emotion that pulls me in.
Speaker B:And in the case of Beth, it was yearning.
Speaker B:And I knew that she was yearning for Gabriel, but she was also yearning for the person that she used to be before sort of heartbreak changed her.
Speaker B:And then of course, she was facing grief.
Speaker B:So it was quite.
Speaker B:It was just great fun.
Speaker B:And I loved trying to capture the unbelievably huge passion that first love is.
Speaker B:And I think we can probably all, if you think about it, remember that it does seem bigger.
Speaker B:And I've got grown up children now, so I've sort of watched them going through their first loves and I realize it just is the most all consuming thing and you just genuinely do believe it's going to last forever.
Speaker B:So I loved capturing the passion between Gabriel and Beth at the very beginning and that very, very romantic summer that we have.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker B:That's Magnus, the dog that didn't die.
Speaker B:So at least, you know, he's still here.
Speaker B:He's now.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's getting involved.
Speaker B:Sorry about that.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker A:Don't worry, Claire.
Speaker B:So I just felt that not only did that they fell in love and both of them were kind of a little bit bored.
Speaker B:They were sort of teenagers who were bored and at home and they fell in love.
Speaker B:And I loved that.
Speaker B:But also I think that their connection was much more than a sort of physical passion.
Speaker B:Their connection was over books and writing, over wanting so desperately to be these creative people and not being sure if they could.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so it could have been a lifelong connection.
Speaker B:It wasn't just a flash in the pan romance.
Speaker A:I think that's the thing with them.
Speaker A:You could see how, I don't know, like in Sliding Doors, they would have been fine if it had worked out, but.
Speaker A:Bless you.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:But obviously that would have been a very short story if that's what happened.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay, let's move on to talk about the love triangles.
Speaker A:I think love triangles are really fascinating and the one in Broken country felt really unique because for me, I feel like sometimes they take us onto shaky ground because you need somebody in that trio to break trust and step outside of a relationship.
Speaker A:And when you have somebody like Beth, who has these two really lovely men, it sort of seemed to me that I was just so interested in how I genuinely was connected.
Speaker A:And I sympathized with her.
Speaker A:I was torn for her as well, because, you know, I could see she had these two wonderful men.
Speaker A:She could be happy with both of them.
Speaker A:We know there's going to be heartache, but I just really liked her, and I was rooting for her, even if choices weren't what I would do or whatever.
Speaker A:And I just thought that was really clever that you kept her.
Speaker A:I mean, everyone I've spoken to as well, you know, stayed connected with Beth.
Speaker A:They really liked her.
Speaker A:How conscious were you of keeping Beth to be a likable character?
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I'm so glad you felt like that, Helen.
Speaker B:Me, too.
Speaker B:I. I love Beth, but I. I am aware that some readers find her unlikable because just.
Speaker B:Just you just come across it here and there because, of course, she makes some very questionable choices in the novel, but I was very conscious of the fact that she's happily married when along comes her first love, who she's wildly attracted to and tempted by, and that that could make her quite unlikable because Frank is almost saint like.
Speaker B:I mean, actually, he's got some flaws, which I think are why the marriage crumbles.
Speaker B:But, you know, he is loved.
Speaker B:In the village, most people seem to love Frank the best.
Speaker B:And so for her to even contemplate betraying Frank is going to make her potentially unlikable.
Speaker B:But what I hope I did was reveal her story in such a way that if you don't excuse her behavior, you do at least understand it.
Speaker B:Because Beth and Gabriel both have this enormous what if?
Speaker B:Locked inside them, which they pushed down.
Speaker B:Their relationship founders at the beginning, and they go on and marry other people.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It rears up, and they're in this crossroads and they get this.
Speaker B:This second chance.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And so she's incredibly tempted by him for lots of reasons.
Speaker B:Partly also because, like I said at the beginning, she.
Speaker B:It's nostalgia.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Half of it is this incredibly intense chemistry between the two of them, which is intellectual as much as it's physical and romantic and passionate.
Speaker B:But it's also the fact that she really just wants to be who she once was.
Speaker B:And, of course, I guess I'm also asking the question, is that ever really possible?
Speaker B:Because haven't we changed too much in the intervening years to ever go back?
Speaker B:And I think there's something that's quite sad about nostalgia because really, you're yearning for things that have passed.
Speaker B:So I hope that with Beth, I Was.
Speaker B:I managed.
Speaker B:I think she's a survivor because I think her life gets knocked off course very easily.
Speaker B:Whereas Gabriel, you know, rich, privileged, entitled Gabriel, which, he's also a very lovely man, but he does have this cushion of wealth and entitlement and everything plays out for Gabriel the way it's always meant to.
Speaker B:Whereas Beth, who's a country girl from a modest background, you know, her life gets knocked off kilter, but what she does do is really make the best of different opportunities.
Speaker B:And so she falls in love with Frank, she falls in love with farm life, she connects to nature, she gets her own education from that.
Speaker B:So personally, I'm a big fan of Beth.
Speaker A:I am too.
Speaker A:And I think, as you say, like, if you didn't know the backs stories, I mean, we're trying to keep it spoiler free as well.
Speaker A:But yeah, she has had a very difficult life.
Speaker A:But something also I loved about her, which I think is why I was so able to sort of sympathise with her, is she, you know, she.
Speaker A:She does think about what she's doing and she does like to face things head on.
Speaker A:I think she's quite brave and sort of, you know, she.
Speaker A:She doesn't sort of act rationally.
Speaker A:She thinks about it and decides, you know, so she's sort of.
Speaker A:I like that she's sort of weighing.
Speaker A:She knows that Frank's a great man.
Speaker A:She knows that there's, you know, trouble ahead, but she just didn't feel like she was sort of winsomely heading off to Gabriel, which I think I would have then struggled if she was sort of, you know.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker A:Aware of the devastation she'll cause.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:And I also think that she's actually, for all of the things that she makes and bad choices in the novel, she is the most emotionally mature, in my opinion, because she is the one.
Speaker B:It's not a spoiler to say that Frank and Beth have lost a child because you know, that the very, very beginning.
Speaker B:And she is the one who is trying to process her grief and face it, and she's trying to get Frank to do the same, but he doesn't do that.
Speaker B:You know, he's so closed down and he's got a lot of guilt.
Speaker B:And so really, even though Frank is this wonderful, wonderful man, he's actually quite emotionally immature, I would say, as is Jimmy, his brother.
Speaker B: cess it in the way of sort of: Speaker B:They both just shut it down and block it off and Work really hard, and in Jimmy's case, Frank's brother just drinks too much, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker B:But Beth never does that.
Speaker B:Beth actually always faces what she's going through and.
Speaker B:And so I. I really admire that about her.
Speaker B:And I think she.
Speaker B:She has the most maturity, in a way.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:That brings us on very nicely to my next question.
Speaker A:While Broken country is very much Beth's story, the men in her life, Frank, Gabriel and even Jimmy, are so richly drawn and complex, each battling with their own internal struggles and big feelings, all in different ways.
Speaker A:So Gabriel, who does seem to have it all, I sort of felt for him because he hasn't got a great mum, so he doesn't sort of have that loving family connection.
Speaker A:If Frank's sort of got so much grief and guilt, and then Jimmy is carrying this bereavement from his childhood that he carries really, really heavily.
Speaker A:And I just thought they were really brilliantly explored by you.
Speaker A:Could you tell us what it was like to write these complex male characters and explore both their strengths and their vulnerabilities as well?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I'm glad you felt like that because actually, I think there are several things here.
Speaker B:First of all, the men, Frank and Gabriel, both had a voice in the first two years of drafts, so I do think I got to know their interiors and Frank in particular.
Speaker B:It was a really experimental novel at the beginning, and I. I wrote Frank in this very sort of poetic, but pared down, kind of rough, I guess, rural style is the only way I can try and describe it.
Speaker B:I loved writing him like that, but it was a woman's story, and the book landed once I realized it's a woman torn between two men and it needed to be told in only Beth's voice.
Speaker B:However, I do think that gave me a lot of insight into who they were.
Speaker B:And Gabriel, I mean, I think, yeah, no spoilers.
Speaker B:But I think Gabriel, in a way, I feel the saddest for Gabriel because he does, despite his entitlement, and grows up in this enormous house on the edge of the village.
Speaker B:But it's a sort of loveless childhood, and it's when Beth comes along that finally he connects and someone sort of makes sense of his life because his mother's very difficult and much younger than his father, and his father has closed up.
Speaker B:You know, he's just a distant man from that generation.
Speaker B:Very bookish, very scholarly.
Speaker B:They don't give Gabriel much attention or love, really.
Speaker B:And so I felt very sorry for Gabriel.
Speaker B:And I think that it's Beth who makes sense of his life.
Speaker B:And with Frank and Jimmy, I really understood those brothers and actually, funnily enough, I really understood them being locked down by grief and not processing it as young men because it's something that happened to me myself.
Speaker B:You know, I lost my mother at a similar age and I think that I similarly was very locked down and didn't process it until way later in life.
Speaker B:And I didn't know that I felt I'd put all that into those male characters until somebody asked me a question about it.
Speaker B:And I thought, gosh, of course I quite identify with Frank and Jimmy.
Speaker B:So in a way I think there's a part of me and Frank and Jimmy, as strange as that might sound.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I'm sorry that you, you had that experience as well, but.
Speaker A:And actually now you say that, I'm thinking that does make sense because I mean, I was, oh, I mean I was 20, in my 20s when my mum passed away, so still young but, you know, older.
Speaker A:And I thought you wrote their grief in a way that I was like, I can see, I can see how they're struggling, I can see how painful it is for them, but also something I don't think, you know, do we have many male stories of sort of grief around.
Speaker A:So I quite liked reading their sort of perspectives as well.
Speaker A:That was quite a fresh look at sort of how men, and particularly men of that time would have found it difficult to cope as well.
Speaker A:So it was really interesting.
Speaker B:And also I think Jimmy, you know, Jimmy was a character I had to work quite hard on because I wanted him to come across as a lovable rogue rather than he, you know, because he can be quite dysfunctional, he does drink too much, he is occasionally violent, he gets into trouble at school, but he's a really warm, loving man.
Speaker B:But what happened with him, I believe, is that he stopped caring about himself when his mother died.
Speaker B:He was only nine.
Speaker B:And I think his, his father couldn't help him and Frank tried to help him but had his own struggles.
Speaker B:So I, I really understood how Jimmy's response to grief was to self sabotage at times.
Speaker A:And I think you did do with Jimmy because you could see again, he could be quite an unlikable character.
Speaker A:But you understand, understand him as well and you can see that he does have warmth about him and there are things that he deeply cares about which, you know, yes, again, you're not going to agree with everything he does, but he is somebody that you're rooting for and sort of do feel for as well.
Speaker A:So I think you, you absolutely nailed him as all of them.
Speaker A:I just think you wrote them all beautifully.
Speaker A:I really do.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:That means a lot.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So, Claire, Broken country, as you say, was like, it's been a lot of hard work for you, a lot of rewriting, a lot of time.
Speaker A:You know, it is a deeply emotional story with these brilliant layers of complexity and these incredible reveals throughout.
Speaker A:Listening to you talk about it today, it's clear how much this story and these characters mean to you.
Speaker A:How did you feel when you finally realized that you finished, you reached the end?
Speaker A:And then also when the book went out into the world, what was that like for, for you?
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, I love this question because so many, many mixed emotions when I, I do think these characters are kind of very real to me.
Speaker B:They're just, they were in my heart for so long and a couple of times I was told I should stop writing the book when it wasn't working.
Speaker B:And I did, and I couldn't bear it.
Speaker B:So that, you know, I cared passionately about them.
Speaker B:And when, when the book went out on submission, well, really also there was a kind of a mourning process.
Speaker B:I remember saying to my husband when I was doing my last draft with my agent, who was brilliant and helped a lot with my edits, I remember thinking, oh my goodness, I'm just going to miss them so badly.
Speaker B:But then what was incredible was the way the story seemed to connect.
Speaker B:And it was, it was very exciting because it was around London Book Fair and it just started connecting in various countries in Europe and in America.
Speaker B:And I was getting these unbelievable letters from editors which meant the world to me, saying how much they love the characters and how they got them.
Speaker B:And, you know, when you write a novel, especially as hard as this one was, and four years, and a lot of my friends were getting new book deals because I published two novels before, I think it's a six year gap and I was feeling quite insecure, but I still couldn't get this book over the line and finally I did.
Speaker B:So you just write in a vacuum without really having any idea what people are going to think.
Speaker B:I knew my agent loved it and then I knew that the foreign rights agent at the Blair Partnership loved it and that those were really obviously great signs, but it was completely terrifying going on submission.
Speaker B:I didn't know whether it would connect or not.
Speaker B:So it's, it's meant the world to me.
Speaker B:And the really, really lovely thing about talking to you and about talking to readers is that now, one year later, the book has come back and the characters have come back and I get to talk about them again and see what other people think about them.
Speaker B:Which is actually so fascinating because people take very different things from it.
Speaker B:Things I've never really even thought about.
Speaker B:So it's what.
Speaker B:It's wonderful.
Speaker A:I always love that.
Speaker A:How I think, you know, we all do read books differently.
Speaker A:And, you know, when I'm sort of reviewing books and chatting to other people, you know, sometimes somebody will say something.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's such an interesting point I hadn't seen.
Speaker A:I guess it depends where you are in your life.
Speaker A:You know, the time that you read things as well, like, you know, what you'll pick up.
Speaker A:Always so interesting to see.
Speaker A:But everyone I've spoken to just loves.
Speaker A:And actually, because I was what, you know, I got quite an early copy, and I remember reading it and then just being like, it's great when you get early copies.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:But then there's like, oh, nobody's read it.
Speaker A:Who can I talk to about this book?
Speaker A:Other people to pick up.
Speaker B:Yeah, you should talk to me.
Speaker B:I love talking about it.
Speaker A:So we have a listener question before we move on.
Speaker A:Somebody who I know that you know now, she is a huge fan of yours, which is, of course, lovely Nick the bookworm.
Speaker A:Wonderful Nick would love to know.
Speaker A:She is lovely, isn't she?
Speaker A:She's the best.
Speaker B:She is.
Speaker A:She wants to know, which character did you enjoy writing the most?
Speaker A:Are you Team Frank or team Gabriel?
Speaker B:It's a difficult question.
Speaker B:I mean, I think probably Beth, because I knew who she was.
Speaker B:She's not my favorite character, but I think that I loved writing her the most because I always had such an incredibly strong sense of who she was and how she would react in every single scene.
Speaker B:And even though her story changed, she didn't change.
Speaker B:She's always been.
Speaker B:She was always very, very clear to me in my head.
Speaker B:But I'm definitely Team Frank, and I was always Team Frank.
Speaker B:I do feel very sorry for Gabriel.
Speaker B:And actually, while I was writing the novel, I hope this comes across to the readers.
Speaker B:I felt very torn because I think Gabriel is a very appealing option, and Frank is a very appealing option.
Speaker B:And what I wanted to do was write a story which is asking the question, can you love two people at once?
Speaker B:And the only way to answer that is to show two men who are completely different, but to connect to different, separate parts of Beth's character.
Speaker B:So Frank is a devoted husband, a loving father.
Speaker B:He's funny, he's down to earth, and he introduces her to farm life.
Speaker B:And Gabriel is bookish, creative, passionate, romantic.
Speaker B:And so it's a very difficult choice for her.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I found it a very difficult choice.
Speaker B:But what I can say is that the two times when I stopped writing Broken country for a couple few weeks because it was too hard or because I've been advised to stop writing it, I always went back because of Frank.
Speaker B:And there are three scenes with Frank that have come across.
Speaker B:Every single draft, every single painful draft.
Speaker B:There's just these three scenes.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And really, it was for Frank that I needed to know the ending.
Speaker B:So I'm.
Speaker B:I'm on his side.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And thank goodness you didn't stop and you story needed to be brought out.
Speaker A:It's so funny with the Team Frank and Team Gabriel.
Speaker A:So I think it was on publication day I shared a story on Instagram.
Speaker A:I did like a poll asking, are you Team Frank or Team Gabriel?
Speaker A:So at that point, you know, I guess it would have been like, sort of early readers, maybe a couple who have, like, you know, picked it up and started straight away.
Speaker A:But normally when you do those polls, people will just hit the question that they want, the.
Speaker A:The answer they want.
Speaker A:But what happened was people were like, voting for either Team Frank, mainly Team Frank and Team Gabriel.
Speaker A:But then they were coming to my DMs and sending me messages, and it was really, stand by your man.
Speaker A:Because they're like, it has to be Frank because this, or it has to be Gabriel because this.
Speaker A:And I was like, gosh, that's so.
Speaker A:They're so real to people that they're not just going to hit a button and say, I'm Team Frank.
Speaker A:They want to tell me, which I just thought was really, really interesting of like.
Speaker A:But I think that's how we feel about it.
Speaker A:I feel like I'm Team Frank.
Speaker A:I also do.
Speaker A:But then I sort of, when I sit and think about it, but I'm like, oh, I do feel really bad for Gabriel, though.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Oh, I love the fact that people would DMing you.
Speaker B:And actually, when I was in New York, and I think it might be an age thing, because everybody I know is Team Frank.
Speaker B:But when I was in New York and I was talking to some publishing people and there were these young girls and they were in their early 20s, and they were like, oh, definitely Gabriel.
Speaker B:And I said, I'm thinking maybe when you get older, you think, actually, I need a good man.
Speaker B:And maybe when you're younger, you think, I'm looking for the hot bad boy.
Speaker B:You know, I Think there could be a bit of that in it?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker A:Okay, so Broken country is out now.
Speaker A:It's another one of my top reads of the year, one that I'm gently pushing on everyone I meet.
Speaker A:So please do pick it up and prepare.
Speaker A:Prepare to fall in love.
Speaker A:Before we move on to talk about the books that have shaped Claire's life, just to remind listeners that all the books that we're going to talk about will be linked in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them easily afterwards.
Speaker A:Okay, Claire, so how did you find picking your five books?
Speaker A:Was it difficult for you?
Speaker B:Just so, so hard and bad.
Speaker B:And I. I had to stop myself from emailing you.
Speaker B:I already emailed you once, but I wanted to email you every day and go, actually, no, now these impossible, impossible tasks.
Speaker A:It does change, though, the more you think about it and the sort of, you know, when, like, some people look at it like books that have sort of shaped their writing, inspired them, or they'll go from sort of, you know, childhood to going through.
Speaker A:So it depends on what you're looking.
Speaker A:But it is hard because favorite books is a very different thing.
Speaker A:But books that have that sort of, you know, power to sort of take you to a place and remind you of why they were special to you at that time is really, really different, isn't it?
Speaker A:So, sorry, it doesn't make me very popular.
Speaker B:Oh, no, no.
Speaker B:I think I got there in the end.
Speaker A:Well, I was thinking actually just now when you did email me if we, if we get time and you want to add in the one we swapped out, I'll let you, because I really like you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you.
Speaker B:How about they are the 10?
Speaker A:Well, let's see how.
Speaker A:Let's see how we go.
Speaker A:Let's start with your first book.
Speaker B:Okay, so my first book, my number one book is I Capture the Castle by Dodie Smith.
Speaker B:Have you, have you read it, Helen?
Speaker A:I have, yes.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So that was given to me by Mother, my mother, when I was 11.
Speaker B:It was her copy and I think.
Speaker B:I think it came out at the end of the 40s.
Speaker B:I think she would have got almost a first edition.
Speaker B:And my copy is very old, Ripped, old spine.
Speaker B:Anyway, she gave me this book and I fell in love with it.
Speaker B:And it's for anybody who doesn't know, it's the tale of two sisters who are living in this crumbling castle.
Speaker B:And their father is a famous author.
Speaker B:Hello, Gabriel.
Speaker B:But he's blocked and.
Speaker B:And basically Two rich men move into the country estate and this is great big plan for the two sisters to marry the two brothers.
Speaker B:Let's say what I love about it is it's an eccentric family at its heart in this very atmospheric castle.
Speaker B:So it's setting and it's family and I.
Speaker B:Now when I think about it, I've read that book my whole life.
Speaker B:I probably read it every year.
Speaker B:When I think about it, I think it's a blueprint for everything that I like to read and probably what I like to write.
Speaker B:I've never really.
Speaker B:I've only started thinking about that recently.
Speaker B:For example, sorrow and bliss came along and the Paper palace came along and those two books have.
Speaker B:Hey, they have an eccentric family with a complicated love story at their heart.
Speaker B:I think that's just what I love.
Speaker B:So I Capture the Castle was the blueprint for everything.
Speaker B:And also I still got my mother's copy and it's so precious to me.
Speaker B:So it's my number one.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I think there is something about having the copies like from your family.
Speaker A:I've found recently some books that my mum had got me in, like her handwritings in them, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, it's so lovely.
Speaker A:I have this one, it's special.
Speaker A:I should do it for my kids.
Speaker A:I always think I must do this for my kids and I don't, but I must do.
Speaker A:I had this one on my shelf for ages, like years, I think.
Speaker A:And people kept saying, oh you'll love it, you'll have to read it.
Speaker A:And then I remember tidying my bookshelves up.
Speaker A: It was the December of: Speaker A:And I thought, I'll just, I'll read the first sort of bit and see whether it's gonna gel with me.
Speaker A:And it was just the most lovely book to pick up at that time.
Speaker A:I just loved it and I was, I can totally remember sort of how I was feeling.
Speaker A:And it was the end of a really long hard year and it was just.
Speaker A:I escaped.
Speaker A:It was just lovely.
Speaker A:So I love that.
Speaker A:And it's the first time it's been picked.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm so.
Speaker B:I'm very happy to hear that.
Speaker B:And also it could be really old fashioned, couldn't it?
Speaker B:And yet somehow it isn't because the narrator, Cassandra, is very funny, I think, and she just has a very.
Speaker B:And it's written like a diary.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: written in, I'm going to say: Speaker A:No, I Love it.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker A:So the rest of your choices I haven't actually read, so you're going to have to try and convince me to pick some of these up.
Speaker A:Let's move on to book number two, then, Claire.
Speaker B:Book number two is Moon Tiger by Penelope Lively.
Speaker B:And now this book is my all time as well, I think.
Speaker B: It was published in: Speaker B:She's in her hospital bed.
Speaker B:I know this sounds depressing, but it isn't at all.
Speaker B:And she's in her head, she's creating a history of the world through the lens of her life, but it's about love.
Speaker B:It's about sibling rivalry, it's about grief, but it's all these fragmented stories that she, she remembers as this woman in her bed, you know, and, but really at the heart of it all is this incredible love story, so passionate and so real.
Speaker B:And it's actually probably only 30 pages within the whole novel, and yet I've never been able to forget it.
Speaker B:And it's between Claudia, the old woman, who is at that time, this very sort of gutsy war reporter, and they're in Cairo, it's during the Second World War, and she falls in love with an army captain called Tom.
Speaker B:And oh, my goodness, it's just amazing.
Speaker B:Every, every line of their love story is so perfect and, but actually, the whole book is, is wonderful.
Speaker B:So I, I, I couldn't recommend it more highly.
Speaker B:And I actually, I read it a lot.
Speaker B:I read it a lot.
Speaker B:I just, it's what, I'm a big rereader.
Speaker B:And if something gets my heart, which that book has, I'll just read it whenever, really.
Speaker B:Just, I'll just pick it up the whole time.
Speaker A: , winner of the Booker Prize,: Speaker A:I was like, oh, yeah, I always find the Booker Prize books quite difficult.
Speaker B:Yes, agreed.
Speaker A:Which is really bad to sort of, you know, see that and be like, oh, it's probably not gonna be one for me.
Speaker A:But then listening to you talk about it, I'm thinking, this is why, like, when you chat to readers and they recommend a book, there's nothing more contagious than somebody who loves a book when they're telling you about it, because it just makes you want to read it, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Like, oh, Helen, this, this is a book for you.
Speaker B:It's got it all.
Speaker B:It's got it's really has.
Speaker B:And you know, the other thing that would sort of probably turn me off is if somebody said to me it's a book about the history of the world, I'd be, oh, no, no, thanks.
Speaker B:But it's not like that.
Speaker B:It's like her memories of different places in different countries.
Speaker B:But there's always some very heartfelt story within it.
Speaker B:It says, yeah, I think you would love it.
Speaker A:I've literally just added it to basket as you were saying that.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker A:Okay, this series is dangerous.
Speaker A:Okay, well, let's move on to book number three.
Speaker B:Now, this one.
Speaker B:Okay, this was weird, but.
Speaker B:So all the Pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy again, absolutely not the kind of book that I would ever be drawn to.
Speaker B:And I remember it was quite nice.
Speaker B:I had a. I think it came out in the mid-90s and I was living in.
Speaker B:Living the dream.
Speaker B:I was in my 20s and I was living in Sydney on a house overlooking the the ocean and working at the Australian newspaper.
Speaker B:You know, so having this very dreamy life for a brief window and friend said to me, you need to read this book.
Speaker B:It's a cowboy story, but don't let that put you off.
Speaker B:And I was like, oof.
Speaker B:Cowboy story?
Speaker B:I don't think so.
Speaker B:However, it's basically a coming of age story.
Speaker B: I think it's set in the: Speaker B:It's really, I think we're gonna say this love across the class divide thing is something I'm obsessed with because he falls in love with the daughter of the house, which is a forbidden love affair.
Speaker B:He has this incredible love affair and it doesn't work out.
Speaker B:And oh my goodness, what Cormac McCarthy does is he writes so pared down emotion, there'll just be two lines that kill you.
Speaker B:And I just think it's the most beautiful, beautiful coming of age love story.
Speaker B:It's probably what I really adore, which is something that's bittersweet and incredibly moving without being remotely sentimental.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I love it.
Speaker A:So that's really interesting because again, when I saw this come up, I've only ever read the road by Cormac McCarthy, which is brilliant.
Speaker A:It's brilliant, but.
Speaker B:But heavy.
Speaker A:See a lot of it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I can't unsee it.
Speaker A:I found it.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So when I saw this, I was like, oh, I Don't know if I could read one of his books again.
Speaker B:Because he's not like that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Brilliant.
Speaker A:No, but he's very good at sort of creating like you can see it.
Speaker A:And as you were just saying that, I was thinking, well, that's not the road at all.
Speaker A:So maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe this is one to.
Speaker A:I think this one's okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think I know exactly what you're saying about the road.
Speaker B:Of course I love that book.
Speaker B:But, my God, it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's pretty hairy what happens, but with all the pretty horses.
Speaker B:It's just the most beautiful love story again, at its heart.
Speaker B:And it's also about a young man's awakening and it's.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's so romantic for Cormac McCarthy and his.
Speaker B:His language can be a little bit inventive and I think he's a brilliant writer, but it's not remotely challenging to read, I have to say.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's just gorgeous, really gorgeous.
Speaker B:And some of his books I have found too challenging.
Speaker B:So this one.
Speaker B:No, it's very different.
Speaker A:You are leading me astray over here.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:Okay, this one.
Speaker A:The next one is on my shelf unread, so.
Speaker B:Unread.
Speaker A:Unread.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:No apologies required.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I'm just happy and excited for you.
Speaker B:Okay, so the Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Speaker B:I've read it so many times, but he's such an incredible writer.
Speaker B:It's actually, I see that it's.
Speaker B:The centenary is 100 years old.
Speaker B: It must have been: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But anyway, it's.
Speaker B:I think most people know you probably.
Speaker B:You might have seen the films, and it's basically about this enigmatic millionaire called Jay Gatsby, who.
Speaker B:Who lives in this huge house and really, it's all about his.
Speaker B:Everything he has done.
Speaker B:He throws these wild, incredible parties and people come without even really knowing who he is.
Speaker B:And it's all because he still is mourning his first love, Daisy, who definitely isn't worthy of his first love.
Speaker B:And she lives across the harbour and he can sort of see her house and he hopes that one day she'll come to one of his parties, which have.
Speaker B:Course she does, but it's just.
Speaker B:It's so.
Speaker B:It's such a beautiful book because it's.
Speaker B:It definitely evokes the time and place of the Roaring Twenties and all the glamour and that's great, great fun to read, but really, it's just, again, this very, very paired Back emotion that, you know, he.
Speaker B:A couple of things happen.
Speaker B:Docking things happen with just a throwaway line, you know, and this is the thing.
Speaker B:He's a master, I think, so that, you know, he will completely pull the rug from under your feet when you're least expecting it.
Speaker B:And I, I often read it if I'm feeling blocked or I'm having a bad day.
Speaker B:And I've got several copies all around the house and I'll just pick it up and I'll start reading it and actually, I'll tell you what you could do as well, which I have never done before, is I started listening to the audiobook and it's amazing.
Speaker B:I would really recommend listening to the Great Gatsby, actually, because it just brings it to life so much.
Speaker B:So that's an option.
Speaker A:I love audiobooks.
Speaker A:I think it is sometimes like those books that you are struggling to pick up for whatever reason.
Speaker A:It's a really good route to go down.
Speaker A:I like to have the book in front of me and listen while I read along, which is a bit random, but I like it.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a great idea.
Speaker A:It's a short book too, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's a really short book.
Speaker A:So I don't know why I haven't, why I haven't picked it up yet.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I will try the audiobook and let you know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, the audiobook's great, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is brilliant.
Speaker B:It's very.
Speaker B:And it's, it's very readable.
Speaker B:Again, I think it's.
Speaker B:It's fantastic.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I was just thinking about your audiobook.
Speaker A:Then I was thinking actually about Broken country is brilliant on audio as well.
Speaker A:Have you.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:It's incredible.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:She's called Hattie Morahan and I remember my publisher saying this is the, the narrator that we want.
Speaker B:And we, it's just, we're just hoping that she'll be free to do it.
Speaker B:And I didn't know who she was at the time.
Speaker B:She's actually quite a well known actress, I think, and does a lot of Shakespeare, but she's incredible.
Speaker B:And it came out and I was in America for the launch and then I listened to it on the plane home and.
Speaker B:Oh, it just, it's so.
Speaker B:It literally broke my heart.
Speaker B:And it's funny not, you know, I knew every line that was coming, but it felt very different to that.
Speaker B:It was like it added a completely different dimension.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She's incredible.
Speaker B:I really recommend it.
Speaker A:Well, my third.
Speaker A:My Third time going into it.
Speaker A:I'll do the audiobook then.
Speaker B:Okay, great.
Speaker A:Okay, we're going to move on to your final book choice then, Claire.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B: ley, which was written in the: Speaker B:And the reason I, I needed to include it is because actually it.
Speaker B:Of all the books that I love, like the Great Gatsby, the Secret History, I, I promise I'm not going to go through my whole list that have influenced my writing.
Speaker B:This is the one that really directly kind of was a spark for Broken Country.
Speaker B:And it's got one of the most famous opening lines, which is the past is a foreign country.
Speaker B:They do things differently there, which I just think is the most amazing opening line.
Speaker B:And it's about a 13 year old boy.
Speaker B: It's actually set in: Speaker B:For some reason I'd been thinking it was later than that.
Speaker B:And it's about a 13 year old boy who discovers a diary that he.
Speaker B:Sorry, an older man who discovers a diary he wrote when he was 13.
Speaker B:And it's basically he's a boy, a middle class boy who is invited to stay at the house of his school friend for the whole summer.
Speaker B:And it's this grand country estate and he feels a lot of it is his struggle with his feeling of inferiority against his very kind of aristocratic family.
Speaker B:But really the story is that this boy becomes a messenger unwittingly and carries love notes between Marion, the daughter of the country house, who is engaged to a lord, and Ted, who is the tenant farmer, so a sort of working class farmer on the state.
Speaker B:They're having this very passionate secret love affair and the little boy doesn't know that he's actually, you know, exacerbating the love affair because he's carrying these love notes and it all, it ends in absolute tragedy.
Speaker B:And it was in the back of my mind when I started creating Broken country, when that love triangle popped into my head, I thought, oh, I could do an inverse of the go between.
Speaker B:And so it is just in a very small way it's a nod to, to the go between because Beth is the working class country girl who falls in love with Gabriel, the boy from the big aristocratic house.
Speaker B:And so with, with catastrophic repercussions, let's say.
Speaker B:And so I, I felt it was kind of important to include it.
Speaker B:And funnily enough I, I knew the story of the Go Between.
Speaker B:I'd always loved it.
Speaker B:But it's not like one of my Books that I reread, reread like Moon Tiger, which I know line by line.
Speaker B:It's not like that.
Speaker B:I probably read it as a teenager and maybe I'd read it once more and I, it was just, I had the idea of it in my head and it was really late on into writing Broken Country.
Speaker B:I picked it up again and I thought, I'll have a look at this.
Speaker B:And the child is called Leo and my child was called Leo.
Speaker B:And it was not intent and it was not intentional, but I think it must have just been in my subconscious.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it is.
Speaker B:It is a beautiful book.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I'd say when you emailed me about this yesterday and I looked and I was like, I'm.
Speaker A:I don't judge books by their cover.
Speaker A:But the first one that came up had this beautiful cover with like swans on the front.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, that looks lovely.
Speaker A:And I hadn't supposed to read what it's about, not judge it on the COVID but it sounds brilliant.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:I tend to sort of overlook classics and things and I do struggle with them.
Speaker A:So again, I probably, if I'd seen this on a bookshelf, something, I probably would have sort of overlooked it.
Speaker A:But hearing you talk about it does make me think actually it might be one that I would really enjoy as well.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:I know, yes, because I, you know, when I was at school, I loved the classics and I, I read them non stop.
Speaker B:Jane Austen I will still read and love, but a lot of the things I used to read at school, like Dickens and the Brontes, I just, I just tend, I think my, I think our tastes change, don't they?
Speaker B:And I now prefer contemporary fiction.
Speaker B:It's just what I'm used to reading.
Speaker B:Strange, isn't it?
Speaker A:So many great books though, aren't there?
Speaker B:I mean, well, there really are.
Speaker A:Just had a brochure land on my desk and I was like, oh no, there's like adding lists, books to my list.
Speaker A:I'm thinking, I'm never gonna be able to read these.
Speaker A:All I get panicky.
Speaker B: brand new, but I think it was: Speaker B:And it's called Leaving by Roxana Robinson and she's an American writer and I just saw somebody else recommend it on Instagram and I thought, oh, okay, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll get it.
Speaker B:And I didn't know anything about her at all.
Speaker B:And it was the story of It's a story of a first love affair that reemerges, but the couple are much older there.
Speaker B:I think they're in their early 60s.
Speaker B:And it's just incredible.
Speaker B:It's so compelling and it's set in America.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It's quietly devastating, but it's.
Speaker B:It's actually, funnily enough, I felt it had quite a lot of similarities with Broken country, and it was just something that I. I didn't know about Roxanna Robinson.
Speaker B:Now I must read her other books.
Speaker B:But it was fantastic.
Speaker B:And I promise I'll stop.
Speaker B:I promise I will.
Speaker A:And another one.
Speaker A:Another.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:When you find a book, though, and you think, oh, they've got other books I can sort of go and binge read.
Speaker A:I haven't seen this one before.
Speaker A:I've just googled it now while you were talking.
Speaker A:It's so funny, isn't it, how so many great books sometimes just go under the radar a little bit?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Somebody to talk about them before they sort of get picked up.
Speaker A:So I will definitely read that one.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:It sounds like a brilliant recommendation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to hit you with a tough question then, Claire.
Speaker A:If you could only read one of these books again, which one would it be?
Speaker B:It's so difficult, Helen, because.
Speaker B:But I am actually going with Moon Tiger, obviously, in my heart, as I capture the Castle.
Speaker B:It's very, very difficult, but I'm going with Moon Tiger.
Speaker B:And the reason I'm going with Moon Tiger is because obviously it's my favorite love affair of all time, but because it's got so much in it, it's got so much depth, it's got different countries, it talks about Egypt, it talks about the Second World War, it talks about sibling rivalry, it talks about being a twin.
Speaker B:And so I feel that I get a lot.
Speaker B:If I can only have one book, I'm going to get the most out of that one.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be so mean.
Speaker B:Okay, well, if you just let me have in my back pocket I capture the Castle, I'll be happy.
Speaker A:Okay, perfect.
Speaker A:Done.
Speaker A:It's a deal.
Speaker A:Claire, I have loved chatting to you today.
Speaker A:It's been so wonderful.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker B:Oh, I've loved talking to you as well.
Speaker B:It's like my favorite kind of conversation.
Speaker B:So thank you for inviting me on.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you.
Speaker A:I love that chat.
Speaker A:Wasn't it so wonderful to hear Claire talking about her characters?
Speaker A:It's so clear to see how much they mean to her.
Speaker A:I have to say they're in my heart as well.
Speaker A:I just adore this book and I hope that we've convinced you to pick it up now as well.
Speaker A:It is a brilliant read and it is available now in hardback, so please do grab a copy.
Speaker A:I really hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as I have.
Speaker A:I'll be back next week chatting to another author about the books that have shaped their lives, and I really hope that you'll join me for that episode too.
Speaker A:In the meantime, I'd be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe, and most importantly, tell all your friends about it.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening and see you next week.
