Episode 17

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Published on:

10th Oct 2024

Mysteries and Life Lessons: Susan Fletcher on The Night in Question

Listeners are invited into a heartfelt conversation with Susan Fletcher as we discuss her brilliant new novel The Night in Question." 

Susan discusses the inspiration behind her protagonist Florrie, an 87-year-old woman who embarks on a quest to uncover the truth behind a mysterious incident in her care home. We also discuss Susan's creative process, particularly how her time during the lockdown influenced her writing and character development. 

Of course, we also discuss the five books that have shaped Susan’s life, she is so passionate about her choices that she inspired me to pick up one that I had always been intimidated by and I loved it as much as Susan did.

Susan’s book choices are:

Death of a Naturalist by Seamus Heaney

Jamaica Inn by Daphne du Maurier

The English Patient by Michael Ondaatje 

 Women Who Run With The Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes 

State of Wonder by Ann Patchett 

Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode of Best Book Forward and be sure to tell your bookish friends all about it. See you next week for more bookish chats with another author.

Transcript
Host:

Welcome back to best book forward, the podcast where I talk to authors about the five books that have shaped their lives.

Host:

Think of it as like the bookish version of Desert Island Discs.

Host:

Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Susan Fletcher, author of the Night in question, a book that I absolutely adored.

Host:

In this episode, we'll delve into the world of Susan's captivating stories, discussing the weight of secrets, inspiring older characters, and how Susan found inspiration during the lockdowns.

Host:

Of course, as well as chatting about the night in question, we'll also find out which five books have shaped Susan's life.

Host:

Susan, welcome, and thank you so much for joining me on best book forward today.

Susan Fletcher:

Thank you for having me.

Host:

I'm so excited to chat to you.

Host:

I absolutely love the Knighton question.

Host:

It is a mystery, and I know not all listeners would have read it yet.

Host:

So we're going to keep this completely spoiler free.

Host:

And I'm saying that more for me than for you.

Host:

So do you want to start off by telling listeners what the knight in question is all about?

Susan Fletcher:

Absolutely.

Susan Fletcher:

Lovely to speak to you, too.

Susan Fletcher:

This is a treat.

Susan Fletcher:

So the knight in question is two things.

Susan Fletcher:

It is.

Susan Fletcher:

First of all, as you say, it's a mystery.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a contemporary mystery happening.

Susan Fletcher:

My protagonist is Florrie.

Susan Fletcher:

She's 87.

Susan Fletcher:

She is wheelchair user in a residential home.

Susan Fletcher:

And one night, something mysterious and unsettling happens in her care home.

Susan Fletcher:

Everybody else around her thinks it's a tragic accident, but Florrie considers it to be otherwise, and she sets about trying to solve the mystery.

Susan Fletcher:

So at first glance, that's what this book is.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a contemporary mystery, a classic whodunnit, if you like.

Susan Fletcher:

But the second thing this book is, and what I feel the heart of this book is I really wanted to write about one woman's life.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted to take this 87 year old who is overlooked by society, who is very much underestimated, who people might look at and think very little of.

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, she's extraordinary.

Susan Fletcher:

She's had this immense, interesting, unorthodox, complicated, tragic, joyful life.

Susan Fletcher:

And I wanted to set that down.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted to look at Flora's life from preconception when her parents first meet, all the way up to where she's 87 now and the secrets that she holds, the love affairs she's had and not had.

Susan Fletcher:

I remember reading William Boyd's in a human heart when I was quite young.

Susan Fletcher:

It doesn't feature in one of my five books, but it could have done.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just loved that here was someone's life set down on pages and all the complexity and sadness of it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I wanted to do that with a woman.

Susan Fletcher:

So that's what the book is.

Susan Fletcher:

It's two things.

Susan Fletcher:

And I should say, too, that we find out quite early that in Florrie's life and her teens, something happened to her that's informed her whole life.

Susan Fletcher:

Everything she's done, all her decisions have been based, really on this thing that happened, and we don't know what it is until the denouement of the book.

Susan Fletcher:

So in a way, it's two mysteries in one.

Susan Fletcher:

But that is my slightly long summary of the night in question.

Host:

No, it's fabulous, and it's two things done brilliantly well.

Host:

Like, the mystery is fabulous, and the story of flory is incredible.

Host:

She is such an interesting character.

Host:

I loved her.

Host:

I mean, as you say, she has had an extraordinary life, which we find out through the dual timeline, going all the way back to the very beginning, which I don't think I've seen done like that before, which I loved.

Host:

She is a really interesting character, and I'd love to know, was she inspired by somebody you know, or where did she come from?

Susan Fletcher:

And beaming.

Susan Fletcher:

I know the readers can't tell, but that's such a lovely thing to hear.

Susan Fletcher:

Thank you.

Susan Fletcher:

In the beginning, she was inspired by my grandmother, but only in terms of circumstance.

Susan Fletcher:

al granny, she passed away in:

Susan Fletcher:

And I really wanted to write about somebody who has a disability, but it doesn't define who she is.

Susan Fletcher:

So Florrie sets about solving a crime.

Susan Fletcher:

The only thing really, she can't do is go upstairs.

Susan Fletcher:

Everything else she can manage.

Susan Fletcher:

So, yes, we know she's a wheelchair user, but also, in a way, it's a minor part of her because she's 10,000 other things other than that, and that was my grandmother.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, she just got on with it, basically.

Susan Fletcher:

But in terms of Florrie's character, what she has gone through, what she's seen and experienced, she really came to me fully formed.

Susan Fletcher:

I started the book in lockdown.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted to write about a character who primarily would keep me good company because I was living on my own in this little first floor flat.

Susan Fletcher:

And like everybody, I was very anxious about what was happening in the outside world.

Susan Fletcher:

So writing and reading is my fallback and my comfort, and I wanted character that I would be with every day, who just made life better for me.

Susan Fletcher:

And Florrie was absolutely that.

Susan Fletcher:

She wheeled herself into the room in a st of pink florals and her powder puff hair and said, right, I'm with you now.

Susan Fletcher:

And now is hard, but look at all the wonderful things there also are out in the world.

Susan Fletcher:

So she's optimistic.

Susan Fletcher:

She just.

Susan Fletcher:

She did feel fully formed.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's interesting.

Susan Fletcher:

This is book number seven for me, but in many ways, it feels the most personal.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think, first of all, there is the element of my grandmother there from the start, but lockdown meant I couldn't go out and research things.

Susan Fletcher:

I couldn't go and explore, and I knew I wanted.

Susan Fletcher:

And this isn't a spoiler, but I knew one of the things that should be part of Florrie's life is travel.

Susan Fletcher:

She's travelled extensively, and I can't say I've travelled as much as she has, but I have backpacked in my younger days, and I kept Iris, so I had no choice but to revert to those, to inform Florrie's life.

Susan Fletcher:

So a lot of her traveling experiences and what she's seen and heard and smelt come from my terrible, slightly overblown traveling diaries from when I'm 24.

Susan Fletcher:

So I find, actually, a lot of me in those pages more than I have probably, in any other book.

Susan Fletcher:

So, yes, she is slightly inspired on granny.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a touch of me there.

Susan Fletcher:

I know there is, because I had to flesh out her traveling, but really, she's just.

Susan Fletcher:

She came fully forward more than any other character I've ever written.

Susan Fletcher:

She just appeared in front of me, and I knew who she was, and I knew what she was going to tell me, and I knew what her secret was.

Host:

I mean, there's so much you've just said there that I literally just smiling at you like a lunatic, haven't I?

Host:

As we talk.

Susan Fletcher:

It's lovely.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm smiling at you back.

Susan Fletcher:

This is great.

Host:

I love the idea that she's based on your granny is amazing.

Host:

But the idea of her coming to you in lockdown, as you were saying that, I can't remember the exact quote, I won't try and flick through the book to find it.

Host:

But something that I loved about Florrie as well is the way that she talks to herself.

Host:

And I don't mean like, she sort of sits and have conversations, but, you know, little things that she says.

Host:

So at the beginning, when, you know, all her sort of circumstances are changes, she's like, come now, Flory.

Host:

You know, you're still alive, you can still do.

Host:

And I was like, oh, she's so positive, so compassionate to herself as well as others, isn't she?

Host:

It's like really special.

Susan Fletcher:

Oh, yeah, I wanted that.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, maybe I wander around talking to myself.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm not quite sure I do, but, yeah, maybe we all do.

Susan Fletcher:

But I wanted somebody who.

Susan Fletcher:

Yes, she's cheerful and positive and outgoing, but she's not.

Susan Fletcher:

Somebody at one point compares her, I think, to sort of being as insubstantial as a powder puff.

Susan Fletcher:

And it galls her that because she knows what she's gone through, she has had more hardships and losses as you would when you get to 87, you'll have lost people you've loved.

Susan Fletcher:

And she has been lonely and she's been afraid and she's been all the hard feelings at some point in her life, and she's managed to get through.

Susan Fletcher:

She's dug deep, probably because she said to herself, you can do this.

Susan Fletcher:

Come on.

Susan Fletcher:

Best foot forward.

Susan Fletcher:

And so, yes, she is positive and upbeat, but I like to think it's only because she has had to be.

Susan Fletcher:

She has had no other choice.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a wonderful quote that I'm probably going to get wrong now.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a book called Ahab's Wife by the american writer, and I'll probably pronounce her name wrong as well.

Susan Fletcher:

But Senegata Naslund is what I'm meant to go for.

Susan Fletcher:

It's wonderful big and it's juicy and it's gorgeous, and it's about immobie dick.

Susan Fletcher:

It's mentioned very briefly that Captain Ahab has a child bride back at home waiting for him.

Susan Fletcher:

And the whole book is from her point of view.

Susan Fletcher:

So it's really interesting.

Susan Fletcher:

But I remember there's a quote, and I'm going to hash it up a little bit, but it's something along the lines of, whenever you meet a woman who seems to sail with confidence, sit down and talk to her, because you'll find at some point she's left herself for hanging dead.

Susan Fletcher:

And I loved that.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's this idea that you can meet someone who just seems formed and elegant and in control of themselves and outgoing, and you think, gosh, I wish I had her confidence.

Susan Fletcher:

But the reality is, at some point, she's been on the floor crying.

Susan Fletcher:

And that's flory, that she, she seems so happy being who she is.

Susan Fletcher:

But pick at the surface and you find that she's just riddled with insecurities and anxieties and worries and loss and she's just had to.

Susan Fletcher:

To put herself together and crack on.

Host:

She is very, very complex and just so lovable.

Host:

So despite her recent.

Host:

You said, you know, she's a wheelchair user, which happens late stage of her life.

Host:

She is sharp and she's witty and she has all these insecurities and, you know, all the wonderful things we've just talked about.

Host:

But how did you balance her vulnerabilities and her strengths to make her so believable and so lovable?

Susan Fletcher:

Oh, I'm so glad she's lovable to you.

Susan Fletcher:

I miss her.

Susan Fletcher:

I really such a joy spending every day with her.

Susan Fletcher:

And it was.

Susan Fletcher:

I felt so nervous.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, you always feel nervous releasing a book, but I keep having moments thinking, I hope she's all right out there, out in the world.

Susan Fletcher:

It's like she's real and I don't get to see her anymore.

Susan Fletcher:

It's just, you know, I mean, it's lovely that she's published in other countries.

Susan Fletcher:

I was thinking, how is she in America?

Susan Fletcher:

Is she all right?

Host:

Is she getting old world again?

Susan Fletcher:

She's traveling the world again.

Host:

So she's having new adventures.

Susan Fletcher:

Exactly.

Susan Fletcher:

It's seeing wonderful things.

Susan Fletcher:

So in answer to your question, how did I handle that?

Susan Fletcher:

I think it helped that I always knew what her big secret was.

Susan Fletcher:

That was almost the starting point and obviously I will not reveal what the big secret is, but from that I started to think, right, well, how would she respond to this situation?

Susan Fletcher:

Having gone through what she's gone through, how would she respond to this person and working that out?

Susan Fletcher:

And I am really interested in psychology and understanding how people work and that, I think will come out in our chat today.

Susan Fletcher:

So it was sort of mapping that, really, first and foremost, and that would be her vulnerability and then thinking, right, how does she cope with this?

Susan Fletcher:

And bringing in the softness and the light and the humour.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think, too, because probably, again, lockdown forced me to do this.

Susan Fletcher:

You sit with yourself much more, particularly if you're living on your own, doing lockdown, as I was, so there was much more inward looking behaviour.

Susan Fletcher:

I was more introspective.

Susan Fletcher:

How do I feel about the situation?

Susan Fletcher:

What would I have done?

Susan Fletcher:

How would I cope with this?

Susan Fletcher:

So I feel that's not a very good answer to your wonderful question, but I think really it was.

Susan Fletcher:

It began with knowing her secret and working out how would somebody live their life after this?

Susan Fletcher:

And taking it from there?

Host:

That's amazing.

Host:

Do you know, just thinking, as you're saying, but I love the idea of you spend.

Host:

We're not spending lockdown with flory because, you know.

Host:

Do you know what I mean?

Host:

That she is lovely.

Host:

I'm just thinking about some of the other episodes I've recorded for this series so far.

Host:

And there's been a couple, I think, of books that have been written in lockdown in this series that's so amazing that, you know, these wonderful books that brought so much joy and comfort to people have been sort of come from that time.

Susan Fletcher:

So I think it's, you know, it's.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, my take on it, actually, the start of lockdown, I was writing a completely different book, but it was quite heavy and it was about, you know, a man in the final stages of life and gathering his family around him to his deathbed and secrets.

Susan Fletcher:

Right.

Susan Fletcher:

So it felt heavy and lockdown's announced and you panic and you worry about the people you love.

Susan Fletcher:

And I thought, nope, can't do it.

Susan Fletcher:

Need to bring comfort, need to bring lightness, need to bring friendship.

Susan Fletcher:

And one of the things I really feel strongly about is just because one is getting older, why should we think opportunities stop?

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, certainly some do.

Susan Fletcher:

I will now never win Wimbledon.

Susan Fletcher:

It was never on the cards, but I now know I never will.

Susan Fletcher:

And Florian, aged 87, won't climb Everest.

Susan Fletcher:

But why shouldn't she still make new friends, still learn things?

Susan Fletcher:

Still, crucially, why shouldn't she fall in love, aged 87?

Susan Fletcher:

Why shouldn't these things still be happening?

Susan Fletcher:

And I loved thinking that in lockdown, because it makes you think about the time beyond this at a point, we will stop being in lockdown and I don't know what the world will look like after that, but there will still be avengers and there will still be love and there will still be joy.

Susan Fletcher:

You just have to hold on tight and hope for the best.

Susan Fletcher:

But we'll get there.

Susan Fletcher:

And that's Flora's take on life as well.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Hope.

Susan Fletcher:

Hope.

Host:

Such an important thing in our lives, isn't it?

Host:

Whatever situation.

Susan Fletcher:

Absolutely.

Susan Fletcher:

Okay.

Host:

One of the themes you explore in the book, as we talked about, is secrets and the burden they can have on those who carry them.

Host:

We know Flory has a secret and she refers to it as the Hackney incident.

Host:

We're not going to spoil it for anybody.

Host:

I love the way you develop these storylines again, using that dual timeline to keep readers guessing.

Host:

I haven't read your other books yet.

Host:

After finishing the nighting question, I was like, well, I'm going to go back to the beginning and read them all.

Host:

So I decided to do that.

Host:

But I have seen that secrets is a theme that you enjoy exploring and you've talked about psychology of people.

Host:

So I wonder if you could talk about what it is about that that interests you.

Host:

I mean, who doesn't love a secret?

Susan Fletcher:

Who doesn't love a secret?

Susan Fletcher:

It's interesting because quite often I now look back.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, you just said that I'm interested in secrets.

Susan Fletcher:

I probably didn't know I was.

Susan Fletcher:

You glance back at certain books and you go, oh, I seem to have a theme now that's recurring.

Susan Fletcher:

And I didn't know that.

Susan Fletcher:

But secrets, I mean, first of all, to be really blunt, it's a great plot device that sounds very cold and callous.

Susan Fletcher:

But of course, if you hint early on in a novel, this character who you're going to be spending time with knows something that nobody else knows.

Susan Fletcher:

Something has happened to her or hime nobody knows about.

Susan Fletcher:

But in time, you will know, they will share this with you.

Susan Fletcher:

So that as a plot device, is very useful as a reader, which I am first and foremost.

Susan Fletcher:

I love that.

Susan Fletcher:

I love that tease.

Susan Fletcher:

Okay, I'm going to stick with this character because I want to know what's formed them.

Susan Fletcher:

But I also.

Susan Fletcher:

I think we all have them, you know, and it doesn't have to be something huge.

Susan Fletcher:

We don't have to have gone through what Flora's gone through.

Susan Fletcher:

We don't have to have some terrible backstory that we deaden down, but we all hold things inside us that we don't want to share, even if it's just a feeling.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm really interested in what we don't talk about, and that's becoming less, which is great.

Susan Fletcher:

I think there's things that 20 years ago, we couldn't have come forwards and talked about that we now feel we can.

Susan Fletcher:

But there are still things.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, two of the feelings that I find particularly interesting and want to explore.

Susan Fletcher:

One is loneliness.

Susan Fletcher:

I think that's still one of the big taboos that people don't talk about.

Susan Fletcher:

We can talk about many things.

Susan Fletcher:

We can perhaps come forward and say, I'm depressed or I'm going through this, but it's hard to say, hello, I'm lonely.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't think we quite know how to handle that yet.

Susan Fletcher:

And yet it's a feeling that we all have at some point, and it might well be the cliche, if you like, of being lonely in a crowded room, but we all have it.

Susan Fletcher:

We all have moments where we just think this is.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel disconnected, I feel wretched, I feel on my own, even though I might be surrounded by 100 people.

Susan Fletcher:

So I'm really interested in talking about that.

Susan Fletcher:

So I think holding that inside and not feeling able to talk about it is interesting.

Susan Fletcher:

And another thing that I'm really interested in is this.

Susan Fletcher:

Disappointment.

Susan Fletcher:

Disappointment is a word that we throw around all the time.

Susan Fletcher:

Or I'm a bit disappointed that my cake didn't rise properly, or I'm a bit disappointed it's raining today.

Susan Fletcher:

It feels light.

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, disappointment, at its most profound, is a huge feeling because it implies that you've invested time or money or emotion.

Susan Fletcher:

You mentioned hope.

Susan Fletcher:

Disappointment, obviously is when you've hoped for something and it's not worked out.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think that can be a huge thing.

Susan Fletcher:

It can be.

Susan Fletcher:

A.

Susan Fletcher:

Disappointment can be so heavy and hard, but again, it's quite hard to come forwards and talk about it or to say, I feel really disappointed about this.

Susan Fletcher:

It's an emotion that I think warrants more investigation and given more credence and time, because it can.

Susan Fletcher:

It can be a massive feeling, whereas it sounds so often like it's not.

Susan Fletcher:

So secrets.

Susan Fletcher:

Yes, events can be held, and my characters do hold events inside them that they don't share.

Susan Fletcher:

But I'm also very interested in just feelings that we don't talk about as much as we should.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think in many ways, the job of a writer is to bring forward and set down on the page feelings and experiences.

Susan Fletcher:

The reader doesn't talk about that often, but the reader can look at and go, I have felt that I relate to this character.

Susan Fletcher:

This is how I felt when standing on top of a mountain or when sitting at a bus stop in the rain.

Susan Fletcher:

I felt this too, and how lovely.

Susan Fletcher:

I can connect with this character and this writer as a reader.

Susan Fletcher:

I love it when that happens and I try to do that with my books.

Host:

I think you do it really well, and I think it is so important for people to see their experiences.

Host:

I mean, obviously you'll see them in movies, but I don't think I personally, I don't connect to things like that as well as I do in a book.

Host:

If you see, I was thinking about when you were saying about loneliness, I remember when my twins were born, you know, and it's like I'd wanted them for years, and then I was like, oh, I'm really lonely.

Host:

Like, I've got them.

Host:

But, you know, making friends with other mums was really hard and I knew that I felt it, but I wouldn't say it.

Host:

But I see other people talking about it now and see it in novels as well.

Host:

And I'm thinking, that's so great.

Host:

Because young mums coming behind me will know that that's really normal.

Susan Fletcher:

Absolutely.

Susan Fletcher:

I read, I'm a real big fan of the school of life.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know if you know of the school of life.

Susan Fletcher:

It's an organization.

Susan Fletcher:

Alan de Botton, the philosopher, set it up.

Susan Fletcher:

And really, it's a resource to help people navigate their lives and live the happiest lives possible.

Susan Fletcher:

And it does so by using philosophy.

Susan Fletcher:

So some of the real classic philosophers, but they do little books, little podcasts, three minute videos on how to get through a moment of loneliness, for example.

Susan Fletcher:

And they have quite a few really lovely articles and essays about the job of art to console us.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember again, it was a lockdown discovery this the question of why are so many paintings that have people in them?

Susan Fletcher:

Why do those people often look sad?

Susan Fletcher:

And I stopped and I thought, do they?

Susan Fletcher:

And of course you think, well, how many paintings, if you went to the National Gallery, would you see someone sitting there smiling?

Susan Fletcher:

The Mona Lisa is famous for possibly smiling.

Susan Fletcher:

And then you've got to think, is it the laughing cavalier?

Susan Fletcher:

I think is another one.

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, if you look at most portraits, people aren't grinning and you think, why aren't they grinning?

Susan Fletcher:

And the school of life argues that actually we're drawn to an image of somebody who momentarily is feeling what we feel on occasion, but can't express.

Susan Fletcher:

So somebody looking a bit mournful and looking out the window, potentially looking lonely.

Susan Fletcher:

We're drawn to it because we think it.

Susan Fletcher:

This person would understand us.

Susan Fletcher:

This person would understand how I'm feeling right now.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a really interesting concept.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah.

Susan Fletcher:

It's like you say that.

Susan Fletcher:

I think books do it better than anything.

Susan Fletcher:

If you find a good book, that eureka moment when you think, I have felt this, or I've seen that, or I just think it's a lovely form of connection that is so necessary.

Host:

Definitely.

Host:

And I think, as you say, that things we didn't talk about before, you know, they are coming through now and people are talking more.

Host:

And I think it can only be a good thing, can't it?

Host:

Like to share more.

Host:

So I want to talk about the sort of planning of your books now.

Host:

I am not very efficient.

Host:

Like when I'm doing these podcasts, I tend to read all the books twice.

Host:

So the first time I read them, and it's just sort of read to enjoy.

Host:

Second time I'm going through and sort of, you know, looking for themes and quotes and things.

Host:

So not very efficient, but it works for me, and I'm sticking to it.

Host:

The second time I picked up the night in question, I became very aware of how much there is in there.

Host:

So obviously we've got the secrets, the mystery or the characters, the little clues.

Host:

And I just thought, how on earth do you plan something like this and pull it together so beautifully?

Host:

Like, all the threads at the end all come together, so it's so clever, just reading.

Host:

I was like, how do you do that?

Susan Fletcher:

That's really kind.

Susan Fletcher:

I have to say.

Susan Fletcher:

It was hard.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, the structure of this book was, was a challenge.

Susan Fletcher:

And I really.

Susan Fletcher:

These two strands, these two storylines, contemporary, Florey, 87, care home and the Florey growing up through the twenties, thirties, etcetera, I wanted them to swim together, to plait them together, so that when perhaps there's an event or a feeling that Florrie has as a younger woman, that feeling then is echoed in the contemporary strand, some kind of fluidity.

Susan Fletcher:

So it all makes sense.

Susan Fletcher:

There's no jarring for the reader.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted it to feel like it moves very smoothly between these, these two timelines.

Susan Fletcher:

And that was hard.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a lot of moving around.

Susan Fletcher:

But also what's hard is I have written novels that have a degree of mystery in them before I have done that, but this is the first time, really, I've gone for something that feels in the whodunit territory.

Susan Fletcher:

Excuse me.

Susan Fletcher:

And what's really hard about that is, of course, I know who did it.

Susan Fletcher:

I know right from the start who the culprit is.

Susan Fletcher:

So when you're laying clues, when you're sort of popping in the odd red herring, it's really hard to know how that's going to come across because I'm one step ahead.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm always going to know.

Susan Fletcher:

I cannot be surprised by this book.

Susan Fletcher:

And I wanted the reader to go down certain routes and find it a dead end.

Susan Fletcher:

And I wanted, with Florida's big secret, I wanted the reader to think various things as we went along.

Susan Fletcher:

But I just.

Susan Fletcher:

How.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, this is my sort of.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a rhetorical question, but how on earth does one, as the writer, get to truly know how the reader is responding to that?

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, people who do this far more frequently than I probably do know, but because I can't be surprised.

Susan Fletcher:

I was always worrying about if I could surprise the reader, and that was probably the biggest challenge from this sense of structuring the book.

Susan Fletcher:

But I'm.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel with, I mean, the editing part of me is the brain, but the writing is the chest, the heart, the soul instinct.

Susan Fletcher:

And often I would finish a chapter and just sit and think.

Susan Fletcher:

I've been left with this feeling at the end of this chapter.

Susan Fletcher:

What feeling would I want to start the next chapter with?

Susan Fletcher:

If I've just had quite a sad scene, if something difficult has just happened, I'd like the next chapter to lift me back up.

Susan Fletcher:

Or if I've just had quite a buoyant, fun chapter where I've laughed out loud, I hope, which I did do.

Susan Fletcher:

As I wrote this, I'm ready for the next chapter to be reflective and poignant and for something in it to just feel a bit sharp because I'm prepared for it.

Susan Fletcher:

So it felt a much more instinctive way, really, more than anything.

Susan Fletcher:

What feeling do I want now?

Susan Fletcher:

Where do I want to be taken?

Susan Fletcher:

Do I want my hand to be held quite tight in the next chapter, or do I want to just exhale and enjoy being with Florrie for the next ten pages?

Susan Fletcher:

So it's.

Susan Fletcher:

It was more an instinctive way of writing, I think, more than anything else on that one.

Host:

That's so interesting.

Host:

So I think, having read it, obviously, twice, the first time, I mean, I would be the world's worst detective.

Host:

Like, I just.

Susan Fletcher:

I think I would be, too.

Susan Fletcher:

Don't worry.

Host:

Like, I am useless.

Host:

So the first time I was like, oh, gosh.

Host:

The second time, sort of reading it and sort of trying to keep an eye out to sort of see where you sort of, you know, try to, like, lead me down the wrong path.

Host:

And I forgot because I got into the flow again, and I would just be reading.

Host:

I'm supposed to be.

Host:

And I'm like, I'm supposed to be looking for things, Helen.

Host:

Not just enjoying it, but, no, it's really, really interesting.

Host:

I love that sort of idea, you know, of it sort of, you know, wanting to surprise you just did it brilliantly.

Host:

It's so, so good.

Host:

And I would have thought, sorry.

Susan Fletcher:

No, no.

Susan Fletcher:

I was going to say, as a reader, I love that when you read a book and you have a surprise, and you think, oh, my goodness, I didn't realize that.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, same with movies.

Susan Fletcher:

And you go back and read or watch it a second time, and suddenly you see the clues are there, and you're like, oh, that's what that meant.

Susan Fletcher:

Or so.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I love that.

Susan Fletcher:

So trying to do that is a fun thing for me.

Host:

I just imagined you with all these boards around with all the characters and, like, little pins, like a murder thing.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel, yeah.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, it almost looks like something a child's done with bits of wool, and, I mean, we want to step away from dried past does stuck on the wall, but, you know, it's highlighter pens and felt tips and.

Susan Fletcher:

And trying to work out people's relationship to each other, who's told a lie, all of that.

Susan Fletcher:

It's.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah, it is complicated.

Host:

Brilliant.

Host:

So, as I said, you're.

Host:

I haven't read any of your other books, but I will go back.

Host:

ve Green, was published in ₩:

Host:

The night in question, is that your 7th or 8th?

Host:

7th.

Susan Fletcher:

It's my 7th adult, but there was a young adult commission as well.

Susan Fletcher:

So in terms of books that I've written, it's number eight, but in terms of adult fiction, it's number seven.

Susan Fletcher:

So we can go with either.

Host:

I'm like, let's go, eight.

Host:

Eight's a good number.

Host:

What have you learned along the way?

Host:

And what advice would you give to anyone who's starting out in their writing journey?

Susan Fletcher:

What have I learned along the way?

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, there's all the basic things that make sure you eat well and sleep and don't do what I have done in the past, which is stay sitting down for 16 hours to try and make a deadline.

Susan Fletcher:

So I think it's easy for me to say, keep a pen and paper with you.

Susan Fletcher:

Read widely.

Susan Fletcher:

Obviously, you need to do that.

Susan Fletcher:

That's essential.

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, I think what I would say, and it's going to sound rather controversial, the best advice I can give is probably make sure you put the books down and you put down the pen and you put down your laptop and go outside.

Susan Fletcher:

Because really, what we do as writers is we're writing about the world.

Susan Fletcher:

We're writing about people, we're writing about experiences.

Susan Fletcher:

And yes, the reading of these things help us to put it down on paper, but we need to go out and see and feel and hear and smell and taste in order to have the right ingredients for what we want to write about.

Susan Fletcher:

And I've realized, too, I mean, I love landscape, and I'm an outdoor girl, and I'm happiest in walking boots.

Susan Fletcher:

And had you asked me ten years ago to come on this podcast, I'd say it's a landscape I want to write about, and it still is.

Susan Fletcher:

But I now understand much more.

Susan Fletcher:

We're all writing about people.

Susan Fletcher:

Everything to do with art.

Susan Fletcher:

From my point of view, it's about people loving people, being interested in people, and loving and being interested in ourselves, which is often a harder thing to do.

Susan Fletcher:

So meeting people going out into the world.

Susan Fletcher:

Going out into the world and talking to people, sitting with them, really paying attention.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, if you're sitting at a pub table and it's sticky, great, notice that it's sticky.

Susan Fletcher:

Store it away in the back of your head.

Susan Fletcher:

Pay attention to the backs of your mother's hands or how the rain looks on the window or finding that you feel sitting here on a chair different to how you thought you might, you know, it's this awareness of the world around us.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel I'm getting a better writer the more I do that.

Susan Fletcher:

I read as much as I ever did.

Susan Fletcher:

It is essential.

Susan Fletcher:

It shows us how to set the words down.

Susan Fletcher:

It gives us.

Susan Fletcher:

Sorry, it gives us ideas on how to do that, but really get out into the world.

Susan Fletcher:

I think it's the most important thing I can say, if that makes sense.

Host:

It does, and I love it.

Host:

And I just, I was thinking, as you were saying that on Instagram and I couldn't sort of remember who it was, but an author saying they posted a picture of a beach and they were sat there and they're like, oh, I just had to come out and just sit here.

Host:

And then the character started talking to me again.

Host:

She said, watching people on the beach.

Host:

And I was like, oh, that's so lovely.

Host:

And it actually, you know, that.

Host:

How can you sit in a room?

Host:

I mean, some people probably do, I guess, but I think that's really interesting to do that.

Host:

Lucid.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm sorry.

Susan Fletcher:

Interrupting you?

Susan Fletcher:

No, I just, it feels, like controversial thing to say.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, if you want to be a writer, put down books and pens, because that's effectively what makes you a writer, is the books and the pens.

Susan Fletcher:

But I do.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel, I mean, it's probably a trite comparison, but you could read all the cookery books in the world on how to bake the best possible cake.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, all the different techniques and how you need to butter the tin and whatever it is.

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, you've got to go out and get the best eggs.

Susan Fletcher:

You've got to go out into the world and get the best flour.

Susan Fletcher:

You've got to get, you know, the best ingredients will actually make the best cake.

Susan Fletcher:

It doesn't matter how well you know how to make the cake.

Susan Fletcher:

You need to find the stuff yourself to put in it.

Susan Fletcher:

And.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah, talking to people and, I mean, one of the, I mean, this job I do, I nearly always have had to have secondary work or tertiary work even.

Susan Fletcher:

There's always other jobs on the go.

Susan Fletcher:

And I've loved jobs that put me in touch with people, whether it's serving them in a shop or taking their order, because you're constantly being stimulated by people without even knowing it.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, you might suddenly.

Susan Fletcher:

I found the other day that I was writing about somebody, a man whose hair was a bit too long at the back, so it was brushing his collar.

Susan Fletcher:

And you think, I saw that somewhere.

Susan Fletcher:

Where did I see that?

Susan Fletcher:

And I still don't know, but I know I've seen it in one of my many jobs, and it's now in the book.

Susan Fletcher:

So it's just constantly feeding your work by being aware and being interested in life, I think.

Host:

I love that.

Host:

Absolutely love it.

Host:

Right, before we move on to talk about your book choices, I've got a naughty question to ask.

Host:

A bit greedy, probably.

Host:

So there's a bit of a trend at the moment for, you know, plucky pensioners, solving crimes, the Thursday murder Club, the Marlowe Murder Club, all very, very popular.

Host:

We meet some really interesting characters in the night in question.

Host:

And given that Babington hall has already been home to some foul play, would you consider exploring this further as a sequel?

Host:

Or can the residents at Babington hall all rest easy now?

Susan Fletcher:

It's a very good question.

Susan Fletcher:

I was so sad to let Flory go, and I thought, gosh, is there anything I can do with her going forwards?

Susan Fletcher:

But in a way, because the book is two things, and perhaps the greatest mystery of the book is her life, not what happens to Babington Hall.

Susan Fletcher:

I think maybe I leave Florrie where she is.

Susan Fletcher:

However, it's lovely that you mentioned the other characters.

Susan Fletcher:

I loved writing all these secondary characters, and I wanted them to feel as real and formed as Flory does, even though they might only get a page to themselves.

Susan Fletcher:

And there are certain characters in the book that I'm particularly fond of.

Susan Fletcher:

Two, from Flora's backstory.

Susan Fletcher:

I particularly adored her friend Pinky and a character called Victor.

Susan Fletcher:

And I could talk to you about female friendship for a very long time as well, because I think that also was a very underrepresented and wonderful thing.

Susan Fletcher:

But in the actual care home, yes, there are a couple of residents who I think, gosh, I sense you have a backstory.

Susan Fletcher:

I sense you have a particularly interesting life.

Susan Fletcher:

And maybe down the line, I would go and visit them.

Susan Fletcher:

So we would still see Florrie, but Florrie would become a secondary character because I'd be now looking at one of the other residents in detail.

Susan Fletcher:

So that's a possibility down the line.

Susan Fletcher:

I would run that past Transwell get the green light.

Susan Fletcher:

But for now, I'm doing something that's with different people, unrelated.

Susan Fletcher:

Structurally, it will be a similar book, what I'm working on at the moment.

Susan Fletcher:

But I do feel potentially there's life left in badminton hall, so to speak.

Susan Fletcher:

And going back to it would be a lot of fun, I have to say.

Susan Fletcher:

I loved writing this book.

Susan Fletcher:

I just.

Susan Fletcher:

Every day was a joy, even though it was structurally really challenging, and there's some sad bits that were hard to write.

Susan Fletcher:

I just.

Susan Fletcher:

I loved it.

Susan Fletcher:

It's the most rewarding thing I've done professionally, without question, and I'm really proud of it.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's lovely being able to talk about it, honestly.

Susan Fletcher:

You can hear that I'm smiliNg.

Susan Fletcher:

You can See I am.

Host:

We're both just beaming.

Host:

I mean, I watch, perhaps.

Host:

I mean, I want to show you this.

Host:

This is How MucH I could have talked ABout your books.

Host:

I'm just showing Susan that all the tabs that I have put.

Host:

So, yes, pinky is tabbed in there.

Host:

Victor is tabbed in there, lots of other characters.

Host:

I mean, we could have been here for 2 hours just talking about my tabs.

Susan Fletcher:

I love your tabs.

Susan Fletcher:

Thank you.

Host:

The night in question is out now, and it is a brilliant read.

Host:

We're heading into cosy reading season, and I think this would be a perfect one to pick up with a nice cup of tea and really sink your teeth into.

Host:

So treat yourself.

Host:

Before we move on to talk about Susan's book choices, I just want to remind listeners that all of the books we talk about, and we've mentioned a few already, but they'll all be in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them easily.

Host:

So, Susan, how did you find choosing your five books?

Susan Fletcher:

Hard.

Susan Fletcher:

Really?

Susan Fletcher:

Everyone must say that.

Susan Fletcher:

Really hard, because how do you pick five out of however many thousands that one has read in one's life?

Susan Fletcher:

And I think I messaged you going, is it all right to pick non fiction as well?

Susan Fletcher:

Because I'm obviously, I'm a fiction reader.

Susan Fletcher:

I love fiction, but I read a lot of non fiction.

Susan Fletcher:

My first love was poetry.

Susan Fletcher:

Still is my first lover's poetry.

Susan Fletcher:

So if you'd said to me, I can only do fiction, I may have found that a little bit harder, because some of the books that I feel have really defined my writing life, and probably my personal life, too, have been non fiction.

Susan Fletcher:

So once you said I could, that made this easier.

Host:

That'd be really mean.

Host:

Would it be like, no, you cannot have nonfiction.

Host:

I think there's been one other nonfiction so far that's been chosen on this series?

Host:

Yes.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

I've got one more to record, so.

Host:

But I think there's only one so far.

Host:

How interesting.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

So should we.

Host:

Should we crack on and find out about your first choice?

Susan Fletcher:

So, my first choice is the poetry collection.

Susan Fletcher:

by Seamus Heaney came out in:

Susan Fletcher:

Up to this point, I had.

Susan Fletcher:

I knew I loved reading.

Susan Fletcher:

I was already tentatively writing.

Susan Fletcher:

I discovered this book.

Susan Fletcher:

I was still at school, so I think I was about 13, give or take.

Susan Fletcher:

I can picture the classroom I was in.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember the classroom the english teacher had written on the back.

Susan Fletcher:

It said, poetry is to prose as dancing is to walking.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember at one point thinking, I don't get that.

Susan Fletcher:

I haven't read poetry in the way that makes me understand that it feels complicated.

Susan Fletcher:

And I don't.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't get it.

Susan Fletcher:

And then I discovered death of a naturalist.

Susan Fletcher:

And it was in that classroom.

Susan Fletcher:

The actual.

Susan Fletcher:

Whilst the collection is death of an actress, there is a poem in it.

Susan Fletcher:

Record the same.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember we were given that poem in that classroom to read.

Susan Fletcher:

And something happened.

Susan Fletcher:

I couldn't believe how beautiful it was.

Susan Fletcher:

And I felt placed in this boggy landscape.

Susan Fletcher:

And I understood the language, but it felt kind of chewy and rich and dark.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just didn't know that writing could do this.

Susan Fletcher:

And I bought the collection.

Susan Fletcher:

And it has.

Susan Fletcher:

It has changed how I.

Susan Fletcher:

It was.

Susan Fletcher:

It was a starting point.

Susan Fletcher:

It made me want to write.

Susan Fletcher:

I just felt something had opened up to me.

Susan Fletcher:

I could hear the rhythm.

Susan Fletcher:

I could hear.

Susan Fletcher:

He's not a man who rhymes, obviously, but you do hear echoes.

Susan Fletcher:

It is so immersive, which is a theme that I'll use that word again before our time is out.

Susan Fletcher:

I know I will.

Susan Fletcher:

But it is a collection about the natural world, which by this point, I already knew that was where I was happiest.

Susan Fletcher:

You can feel the peat bogs and smell them.

Susan Fletcher:

You can hear the cattle on the farm.

Susan Fletcher:

It is very much about the farming life for him, but it's also about writing death of an actress.

Susan Fletcher:

It's his first collection, I think his most famous poem from.

Susan Fletcher:

It is probably digging, which opens the book up.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's about the fact he comes from farming stock, but actually he's going to write.

Susan Fletcher:

His pen is going to be his implement.

Susan Fletcher:

That's how he's going to define his life.

Susan Fletcher:

He's going to dig into humanity, if you like, rather than dig into the soil.

Susan Fletcher:

And it is just beautiful.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a poem, BlackBerry picking.

Susan Fletcher:

I remember feeling like I was eating the blackberries.

Susan Fletcher:

I could taste them.

Susan Fletcher:

He's written one in there called turkeys observed.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think about it every Christmas.

Susan Fletcher:

It's about a butcher's shop window just before Christmas and that the dead turkey's in the window.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, you can make a poem about that.

Susan Fletcher:

I remember he talks about these turkeys looking like slack bags of inky putty and something.

Susan Fletcher:

I know he talks about the sides of beef retaining the smelly majesty of living that the turkey cowers in death.

Susan Fletcher:

I just.

Susan Fletcher:

It just.

Susan Fletcher:

I just think he's great and I've loved him my whole life.

Susan Fletcher:

And I was so upset when I heard of his passing.

Susan Fletcher:

And one of my regrets was when I was at university, he briefly visited and I was involved in the university newspaper.

Susan Fletcher:

And they said, do you want to go and interview him?

Susan Fletcher:

And I said no, because I was too afraid.

Host:

I was just too.

Susan Fletcher:

I thought, but what if I'm clumsy and awful and ask stupid questions or fall over?

Susan Fletcher:

And I felt I couldn't do it.

Susan Fletcher:

And now I just wish I'd done it because everything I've read about him, he would have been as gracious and kind as he comes through on the pages being.

Susan Fletcher:

And that's.

Susan Fletcher:

That's one of my regrets.

Susan Fletcher:

But this book is beautiful.

Susan Fletcher:

And his final poem, first of all, is a really, what I think is a really beautiful love poem called valediction, which is so tender and just.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a beautiful sonnet and then personal.

Susan Fletcher:

Helicon finishes the collection and he says at the end that he rhymes to see himself and to set the darkness echoing.

Susan Fletcher:

And I feel that's such a beautiful way of summing up why I, and probably a lot of people write it, is to see yourself, to understand yourself better, but to set the darkness echoing.

Susan Fletcher:

I love that.

Susan Fletcher:

It makes me so excited.

Susan Fletcher:

So, yeah, death of a naturalist.

Susan Fletcher:

It made me really appreciate the beauty of language.

Susan Fletcher:

It introduced me to poetry.

Susan Fletcher:

I try to get a rhythm in my prose.

Susan Fletcher:

I try to even occasionally get rhymes in that the reader might not be obviously aware of, but will feel as they read it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I could never bore of him.

Susan Fletcher:

I just think he's fantastic.

Susan Fletcher:

So that's number one.

Host:

And that's amazing.

Host:

So did you say you were 13 when you.

Susan Fletcher:

en, that the book came out in:

Susan Fletcher:

I would have found it.

Susan Fletcher:

So.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah.

Susan Fletcher:

But I do remember, I can tell you, the chair I was in, in that classroom when I read death of a naturalist.

Susan Fletcher:

It was.

Susan Fletcher:

Misses Hooper set it down in front of me and it just.

Susan Fletcher:

It changed and suddenly.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah, poetry is to prose is dancing is to walking.

Susan Fletcher:

I understood it after that.

Host:

That's amazing for, you know, a teen to sit in that class and then come away, you know, be inspired and live your dream.

Host:

When I was reading, I mean, I said, you know, the book flows beautifully.

Host:

There were several sentences that I'd marked and I was like, I can't really read them out because I'm worried about spoilers.

Host:

But I'm just looking at the back here at the reviews on the back and, you know, people are saying extraordinary, lyrical Sunday times and it is so.

Host:

That's incredible that it's inspired and you've taken it through to your work.

Host:

That's such a lovely story.

Susan Fletcher:

Thank you.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah, I think if I could have been, I'd have been a poet first, but I actually really can't write it.

Susan Fletcher:

I've tried.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't feel I'm any good at poetry, but taking some of the rules and some of the music of poetry and trying to get it into prose, that's what I love as a reader.

Susan Fletcher:

When I can read book that feels poetic to me, as you will shortly find out with my other choices.

Host:

But moving, maybe wonder maybe one day if Florrie can do things at 87.

Host:

Who knows what you'll be doing at 87?

Host:

So come on, I'll get there in the end.

Host:

Let's move on to book two, then.

Susan Fletcher:

Yes.

Susan Fletcher:

So I'm still in my teens when I discovered this one and I just.

Susan Fletcher:

I just remember loving it.

Susan Fletcher:

It's Jamaica in Daphne du Maurier.

Susan Fletcher:

And I suppose we're moving on a little bit from what I already knew about myself was that I love reading about the natural world, landscape, how the wind feels in your hair, etcetera.

Susan Fletcher:

And what I remember, first and foremost, about Jamaica, when is the opening.

Susan Fletcher:

And how the heroine, Mary Yellen, is travelling across Bodmin Moor in a small carriage, horse drawn carriage, and the weather's terrible, foul weather.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember there was just one line about the rain hitting the side of the window like a handful of stones.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just think, I know what that's like.

Susan Fletcher:

I've heard that against my bedroom window in a Birmingham suburb.

Susan Fletcher:

I know that sudden clatter when the wind changes and you just get it full on.

Susan Fletcher:

And so I sort of snuggled down and knew I was reading something pretty special.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's so atmospheric, it's so romantic.

Susan Fletcher:

It is.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a level of threat all the way through that just simmers, which was such a clever thing to achieve.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just.

Susan Fletcher:

I think it was the first real taste of being transported by fiction, feeling I wasn't in my bedroom, but I was out on Bodmin Moor with her, out on the north cornish coast with.

Susan Fletcher:

With Mary.

Susan Fletcher:

And I love that.

Susan Fletcher:

I love feeling like a book has picked me up and put me somewhere else.

Susan Fletcher:

That's the first time I really remember it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just.

Susan Fletcher:

I remember feeling frustrated.

Susan Fletcher:

I remember feeling this appetite for this book.

Susan Fletcher:

There's one scene where Jem Merlin, the horse thief, who's the love interest, he comes to the pub.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, this isn't any spoilers, don't worry.

Susan Fletcher:

But he comes to Jamaica Inn, the tavern where Mary lives, and she's been locked into a bedroom, which is above the porch.

Susan Fletcher:

And jem climbs up onto the porch roof and he breaks the window and he charges into the bedroom.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember thinking, what's going to happen?

Susan Fletcher:

You know, 17 year old me all excited.

Susan Fletcher:

And he says something like, oh, where's your uncle?

Susan Fletcher:

And she goes anyway.

Susan Fletcher:

And then he leaves.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember feeling really frustrated, going, does she not even get a kiss?

Susan Fletcher:

What's happening here?

Susan Fletcher:

But it is.

Susan Fletcher:

It's really, really romantic.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember, too, I would underline the lines that I liked that felt passionate and exciting.

Susan Fletcher:

So I just felt very awake with this book.

Susan Fletcher:

And I loved the language.

Susan Fletcher:

I loved the tension.

Susan Fletcher:

It just stands out for me as a real turning point again.

Susan Fletcher:

I think that really is what gave me the confidence to try and write.

Susan Fletcher:

I say try to write proper.

Susan Fletcher:

Try to write.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I was never at this point thinking I'd write professionally, but really try and dedicate myself to doing it in a way that was more than a hobby, or if it was a hobby, it was my primary one thought, no, be brave.

Susan Fletcher:

Set down.

Susan Fletcher:

Set down language like they're doing.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, have.

Susan Fletcher:

Don't steal the stones against the window for the rain, but listen to nature do that.

Susan Fletcher:

Try and create that feeling that du Maurier has given you for someone else.

Susan Fletcher:

So it really kind of spurred me on.

Susan Fletcher:

I think that book.

Host:

That's amazing.

Host:

So incredible.

Host:

You think how many people are reading books and enjoying them, but not sort of, you know, feeding their creativity like you have.

Host:

I think that's incredible.

Host:

Thank you.

Host:

I still.

Host:

I mean, I haven't read it.

Host:

I really struggled.

Host:

I mean, we've talked about this before, how much I struggle with the classics.

Host:

But earlier in the season, I chatted to Nicki Mae and she has told me to try them on audiobook.

Host:

And I was like, why have I never thought to do that?

Host:

So I might try.

Susan Fletcher:

Jamaica Inn is quite slender, so it doesn't.

Susan Fletcher:

It's not a big one, and it's fast paced.

Susan Fletcher:

And yeah, I really enjoy, but I think audiobook is a great way of doing it.

Susan Fletcher:

And you also can hear, of course, then any lyricism.

Susan Fletcher:

It comes out much more if it's read out loud.

Host:

Yeah, I'm going to try that then.

Host:

So I think that might be the one I start with.

Susan Fletcher:

I'd love to hear what you think.

Host:

I will let you know.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

We're going to move on to book number three then, Susan.

Susan Fletcher:

Oh, okay.

Susan Fletcher:

So this is me banging on about how lyrical it is again.

Susan Fletcher:

So it's the english patient, Michael and Archie.

Susan Fletcher:

Where do I start with this?

Susan Fletcher:

Just the gorgeousness of the language, the unbelievable structure.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know how he's done this.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, we talked about the knight in question having two timelines and trying to make them dovetail together.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't really know how he's done this because he does have strands, and there seems to be no real obvious way of how he's placing them down on the page one after the other, but it just works.

Susan Fletcher:

And again, it's really transportive.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel I'm in the desert when I read this book, and it is so precise.

Susan Fletcher:

There is.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, ondarchy is a poet, and I think that comes across because of how I say spare.

Susan Fletcher:

He knows what he's doing with every word, and you can tell, and it's.

Susan Fletcher:

I can see this so clearly that really early on in the book, there is a page and a half that I feel is maybe the best writing I've ever read.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's just a scene.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a description.

Susan Fletcher:

We have a man in the desert who's been horribly burned in a plane crash.

Susan Fletcher:

He's not recognizable.

Susan Fletcher:

And this little paragraph or two is from his point of view.

Susan Fletcher:

And he's in the desert in huge pain, and some nomads have discovered him and want to help him.

Susan Fletcher:

And out of the darkness comes this man who's wearing a yoke over his shoulders, from which there are hundreds of little, small glass bottles hanging on strings.

Susan Fletcher:

And in each of these glass bottles, there is some kind of potion that he uses to heal people in the desert.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's just this description of this man setting the yoke down between two rocks.

Susan Fletcher:

And he unplugs a few of the corks from some of the bottles, and he mixes them in his hands.

Susan Fletcher:

Or also, I remember there's a point when he sits cross legged and he cuts his feet together to form a bowl, and he just pours some of these liquids into.

Susan Fletcher:

And he just makes this paste and starts to dab it onto the wounds of the patient and how it's all done.

Susan Fletcher:

It's just mesmeric.

Susan Fletcher:

It's beautifully done.

Susan Fletcher:

So I love.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I love the book for many reasons, but that scene alone is one of them.

Susan Fletcher:

And I think, too, what I really appreciate about that book, anytime I read it, is there is.

Susan Fletcher:

It's quite quiet.

Susan Fletcher:

It's not action packed.

Susan Fletcher:

Yes.

Susan Fletcher:

It's about a love affair.

Susan Fletcher:

Yes.

Susan Fletcher:

We're trying to find out more about this burned man, the english patient, but it's a look at four main characters who are damaged from war, who were trying to survive, who are trying to recover.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a lot of sadness in this book, but it's done so beautifully that you can bear it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I really like that this book has brought into the fore some of the feelings we mentioned at the start of our conversation.

Susan Fletcher:

There is loneliness in this.

Susan Fletcher:

There is disappointment, there is loss.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's just set down in a very open, honest way that you almost feel it's a privilege to read about what these characters are going through.

Susan Fletcher:

So I really love it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I love this book so much.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I've read it more than probably any other that I got to the point where I thought, right, I want to go into the great sand sea.

Susan Fletcher:

I want to go to the Sahara just because of this book.

Susan Fletcher:

I want to see it.

Susan Fletcher:

I want to try and get down to the Cave of swimmers, which I didn't quite manage.

Susan Fletcher:

It's right down on the egyptian sudanese border that I did get out into Egypt just based on this.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember being able to sit out one evening and on the sand, and I read some of the chapters of this book, which was.

Susan Fletcher:

That felt really special.

Susan Fletcher:

And I'm sure a lot of the listeners know what it's like to read a book in the place that it's written or a book where it's set.

Susan Fletcher:

There's some kind of magic then that happens.

Susan Fletcher:

So the english patient is really special for me, that one.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know how he did it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I met him, unlike the Seamus Heaney thing, when I bottled it, Michael.

Susan Fletcher:

And it was when Warlight came out a few years ago, and he came and did an event in London, and I came down and I joined the queue and I was really nervous.

Susan Fletcher:

What do you say?

Susan Fletcher:

To this man who you just think is wonderful.

Susan Fletcher:

And I got to the front of the queue and I thought, I may as well just be honest and say, I've been trying to work out what to say to you because of how much your work means to me.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't want to come across as just sound and gushing.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know what to say.

Susan Fletcher:

I've been unsure.

Susan Fletcher:

And he said, well, just say, what do you want to say?

Susan Fletcher:

And I said, I just want to say thank you.

Susan Fletcher:

And it was lovely and that was enough.

Susan Fletcher:

And he was very gentleman and he signed my book.

Susan Fletcher:

I went, had a big glass of wine and felt emotional, but.

Susan Fletcher:

So I'm really glad I met him.

Susan Fletcher:

And I would always go up to a writer if I'm brave enough and try not to gush too much.

Susan Fletcher:

But he was very patient with this moon eyed girl.

Susan Fletcher:

So, yeah, that's definitely on the list.

Susan Fletcher:

I knew that question.

Susan Fletcher:

That would be one of my five.

Host:

Oh, that is.

Host:

I love listening to you talk about these books.

Host:

I mean, you're making me want to just write off today and just gather all these books and just sit in my chair and just devour them.

Susan Fletcher:

Oh, I hope you can do that.

Susan Fletcher:

That sounds like a lovely day.

Host:

I can't.

Host:

I can't.

Host:

I haven't read it.

Host:

It's my husband's favorite movie, though.

Host:

So when I said it was list.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

He was like, it's a good book.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah, it is.

Susan Fletcher:

I was really anxious when I knew it was going to be a film because I thought, what are they going to do with it?

Susan Fletcher:

But actually, I think it's really faithfully done, is faithful to the book.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a lot of the language.

Susan Fletcher:

Is there?

Susan Fletcher:

And I think Anthony Minghella, who died way too soon, I think he was excellent at adapting novels for the screen.

Susan Fletcher:

Same with Cold Mountain.

Susan Fletcher:

Talented Mister Ripley.

Susan Fletcher:

A lot of the essence of the book.

Susan Fletcher:

Cold Mountain is another absolute great read.

Susan Fletcher:

It's there on the screen, too.

Susan Fletcher:

I think he was fantastic at what he did, and it's a shame he didn't get to do more of it because I'm a very talented man with.

Host:

Such a skill, isn't it?

Host:

I think when you're taking something that you know, means so much of to people, like somebody's favourite book, it's so hard, isn't it?

Host:

Because, I mean, there's some that I don't want to watch because I'm like, I don't want to risk you ruining my book.

Susan Fletcher:

I agree.

Host:

Okay, well, should we move on to your fourth book choices, then.

Susan Fletcher:

So this one is non fiction.

Susan Fletcher:

Women who run with the wolves.

Susan Fletcher:

Clarissa Pincola estes so, bit of backstory, I think, to when I read this, because it matters a little bit.

Susan Fletcher:

So I would have been 27 and I'd gone through a breakup.

Susan Fletcher:

The relationship had lasted most of my twenties up to that point.

Susan Fletcher:

And I moved and I decided to go and live in Scotland.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just had always wanted to.

Susan Fletcher:

I wanted to live in the Highlands.

Susan Fletcher:

And originally I just went up to visit and I wanted to go to Glencoe specifically.

Susan Fletcher:

I just had this real feeling that I wanted to go to Glencoe.

Susan Fletcher:

Anytime anybody mentioned it to me, I'd have this.

Susan Fletcher:

That's where I want to go feeling.

Susan Fletcher:

And as the relationship had been coming towards its end, I remember seeing an advert on the tv from the scottish tourist board advertising it.

Susan Fletcher:

And Glencoe is quite recognizable.

Susan Fletcher:

It's got some very clear mountains as you approach it.

Susan Fletcher:

And I recognized it and I just thought, that's where I need to be.

Susan Fletcher:

It's very strange.

Susan Fletcher:

it, other than there had, in:

Susan Fletcher:

So very dark history.

Susan Fletcher:

But in this museum, there was a little plaque on the wall talking about in folklore.

Susan Fletcher:

There was a woman who lived in Glencoe called Korag, who was reputed to be a witch.

Susan Fletcher:

She predicted the massacre and she managed to save a lot of people by warning them.

Susan Fletcher:

And I found that really interesting.

Susan Fletcher:

And I thought, I wonder if I should write about her.

Susan Fletcher:

And then I turned a corner and I saw there was a house that was for rent.

Susan Fletcher:

And I thought, I'm going to rent that house.

Susan Fletcher:

This.

Susan Fletcher:

It was very strange how it all happened very instinctively, very quickly.

Susan Fletcher:

So I started to rent this house and I felt that I needed, at this point, a lot of recovery, because I'd gone through a lot.

Susan Fletcher:

It'd been a very long, protracted and hard time.

Susan Fletcher:

And I picked this book up.

Susan Fletcher:

Women who run with specifically.

Susan Fletcher:

Actually, I'd had it for years and never read it.

Susan Fletcher:

I think books can do that.

Susan Fletcher:

You can have them on a bookshelf and it's just not their time.

Susan Fletcher:

And suddenly it is their time.

Susan Fletcher:

This book, non fiction, it is basically.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, it has a subheading myths and stories of the wild woman archetype, which sounds quite extreme, but all this really does is it's a big book and it talks about the power of storytelling and how it can instruct us and give us advice fairy tales, specifically, that often get looked at as froth and nonsense to entertain children.

Susan Fletcher:

They often have a lot of weight and truth in them.

Susan Fletcher:

But really, it's encouraging women to listen to their gut instinct more.

Susan Fletcher:

That's really what the book's about.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's so easy to get sidelined, to be who we think society expects us to be.

Susan Fletcher:

To fit into dutiful roles, to give ourselves over to looking after other people, to deaden or at least quieten the wild woman, as it would say, that instinctive, hungry version of ourselves that's connected to the world and looks after ourselves first and foremost.

Susan Fletcher:

And this book just opens up that.

Susan Fletcher:

The curious side of us, the gutsy side of us, the side of us that has good boundaries.

Susan Fletcher:

And so, no, this is my time.

Susan Fletcher:

You'll be all right without me.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm going to go and do my thing for a bit.

Susan Fletcher:

We forget how to do this and the importance of just nourishing ourselves constantly.

Susan Fletcher:

It is this wonderful book that encourages you to refine your energy and inspiration and your confidence in yourself.

Susan Fletcher:

I had no confidence in myself.

Susan Fletcher:

I thought I'd got everything wrong in my twenties.

Susan Fletcher:

And the fact I found this little cottage in Glencoe and found the new subject matter for my next book and found this book all at the same time.

Susan Fletcher:

It felt so serendipitous.

Susan Fletcher:

It felt like there was a real shift happening.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just say I blossomed there.

Susan Fletcher:

Sounds rather arrogant, but I could feel myself strengthening and opening up.

Susan Fletcher:

I wrote much of that third book outside.

Susan Fletcher:

I would put on my anorak and make a thermos flask of.

Susan Fletcher:

And I'd go and sit against a rock for 6 hours above Glencoe.

Susan Fletcher:

And I would just write with pencil and paper, sort of old fashioned style.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just felt so replenished.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's a book, effectively, that gives you confidence in yourself.

Susan Fletcher:

Again, listen to your instinct.

Susan Fletcher:

Your instinct is right.

Susan Fletcher:

And be creative.

Susan Fletcher:

That's the other big message.

Susan Fletcher:

Dance, sing, paint, write, do whatever it is that you need to do.

Susan Fletcher:

It's just.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a big celebratory Klaxon for living instinctively, for being creative, for being joyful, really.

Susan Fletcher:

And it was exactly what I needed at that point.

Susan Fletcher:

It helped me to write that third book, which, again, I feel really proud of that.

Susan Fletcher:

That book.

Susan Fletcher:

I have lovely feedback from that book.

Susan Fletcher:

And the message in that book is similar.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, we have it in ourselves to understand what's right for us.

Susan Fletcher:

We must try not to be sidelined, as it so often is.

Susan Fletcher:

Easy to be sidelined, isn't it?

Susan Fletcher:

So yes, it's very galvanizing.

Susan Fletcher:

And if anyone listening to this is having a slump or feeling disconnected or feel that they aren't serving themselves very well, it's worth picking this book up.

Susan Fletcher:

It will help you to get back on the straight and narrow.

Susan Fletcher:

Or not the straight and narrow, I should say.

Susan Fletcher:

Get you back on the wild way.

Susan Fletcher:

Exactly.

Susan Fletcher:

Unpin your hair and go out there, you know.

Host:

So that was so exciting to listen to because I think so many women will completely relate to that.

Host:

But whatever stage they're in their life, you know, we all have times where we sort of doubt.

Host:

I mean, I recently I've sort of been saying to my daughter, she's eleven, she'll sort of talk about things.

Host:

I'm like, that's your gut.

Host:

That's your gut feeling.

Host:

And people will tell you're silly for saying it, but you have to listen to that.

Host:

Which is, I think, you know, as I was growing up, people like, oh, don't be silly, you know, that's just whatever, but I really want to sort of inspire that.

Host:

And her.

Host:

What was the third book you wrote then?

Host:

What was the name of that one?

Host:

Because that's one I want to go and read then.

Susan Fletcher:

It's known as Witchlight, but in hardback it was called Korag.

Susan Fletcher:

It confuses people hugely that it's had two names.

Susan Fletcher:

It confuses me too, Korag, because that was the name of this wonderful.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I hope she did exist.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, they say that she's, there's a.

Susan Fletcher:

Her grave still exists in Glencoe but it's better known as witchlight.

Susan Fletcher:

And that really as well for me, I just threw myself into living there in the natural world and just really observed, I think, everything that I loved about Heaney and all the other nature poets that he led me to, sort of Ted Hughes and Robert Frost and yeah, I just plunged myself into what they would have seen.

Susan Fletcher:

I hope I saw too.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, I really, I had dirt under my fingernails literally and figuratively as I wrote that book.

Susan Fletcher:

So yeah, that's, it's called witchlight.

Host:

Okay, I will be reading that.

Host:

I love witchy stories as well.

Host:

So.

Host:

Okay, we've got your final book choice.

Host:

This is one that's actually on my TBR.

Host:

I haven't read it, but I do that waiting.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, it's not particularly recent, but it's recent to me.

Susan Fletcher:

I only read it at the start of this year and it's an author that I'd always wanted to read and heard lots about and just never got round to it and now I'm delighted because I have all her backstory to read, because she's so good.

Susan Fletcher:

The book is state of wonder by Anne Patchett.

Susan Fletcher:

Again, a bit like women who run with the rules.

Susan Fletcher:

I'd had this book on my bookshelf for a really long time.

Susan Fletcher:

Taken it down a couple of times and just thought, no, I'm not in the mood for this.

Susan Fletcher:

But then at the start of February, in really cold, blizzarding, atmospheric weather, I went up to Northumberland for a week and I was in a reading slump.

Susan Fletcher:

I had not been able to read for months.

Susan Fletcher:

Something had just happened.

Susan Fletcher:

I felt blocked and tired and nothing was working.

Susan Fletcher:

I didn't have the concentration for it.

Susan Fletcher:

And this book just got me back reading.

Susan Fletcher:

She is such a good writer.

Susan Fletcher:

I've now read Bel Canto.

Susan Fletcher:

I've read commonwealth.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm working on Tom Lake at the moment.

Susan Fletcher:

I do actually really love.

Susan Fletcher:

It seems I've got a particular affinity for american female writers.

Susan Fletcher:

I've always loved Atwood.

Susan Fletcher:

Barbara King, solver to kill a mockingbird was a.

Susan Fletcher:

Was an early.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, that could well have been on this list because that was also a very sort of seminal read for me.

Susan Fletcher:

But state of wonder, it's set in the Amazon and it's about a scientist who travels down into the Amazon to basically track down her professor, who seems to have gone missing.

Susan Fletcher:

Effectively.

Susan Fletcher:

What this is, is heart of darkness for women.

Susan Fletcher:

It's probably a very.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, probably Anne Patrick, be really cross if she heard me simplifying it like that.

Susan Fletcher:

It's so much more than that.

Susan Fletcher:

But you can feel that this is.

Susan Fletcher:

There is a huge element of heart of darkness here.

Susan Fletcher:

So we have Marina, the protagonist of getting this little boat down into the deepest Amazon, looking for her former professor and also looking for a colleague of hers who last year went to try and find this professor and never came back, who's vanished.

Susan Fletcher:

So there's this very mysterious element to the book.

Susan Fletcher:

And the reason this professor has gone down into the Amazon is because there is a tribe, the Lakashi tribe, who the women are able to bear children into their seventies.

Susan Fletcher:

There is something about this tribe, what they're consuming or doing, that gives the women fertility way beyond what happens in the western world.

Susan Fletcher:

And, of course, drug companies are going, well, this is interesting.

Susan Fletcher:

Let's find out what their secret is and then we can make mega bucks.

Susan Fletcher:

So it's also a book that looks at fertility and women having children.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm now 45.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't have children.

Susan Fletcher:

This is a subject that's really interesting for me.

Susan Fletcher:

It's quite a tender subject for me, but I'm drawn now and curious and trying to find stories where the protagonists are women without children.

Susan Fletcher:

How are we being portrayed?

Susan Fletcher:

Because there's one in five of us.

Susan Fletcher:

Women in the UK don't have children.

Susan Fletcher:

There's a lot of us that you don't see us very often.

Susan Fletcher:

So I was really pleased by chance to find that that was the subject matter of this book.

Susan Fletcher:

That's not why I picked it up, so that the theme for me has set me thinking.

Susan Fletcher:

But also, again, it's one of these books that does all the things that I love a book to do.

Susan Fletcher:

It's transportive.

Susan Fletcher:

It sets me in the Amazon.

Susan Fletcher:

Excuse me.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel like I'm there.

Susan Fletcher:

And I remember in my little holiday cottage in Northumberland with the snow coming down outside.

Susan Fletcher:

I was awake at three in the morning because there was.

Susan Fletcher:

I'm not going to give too much away, but there is a scene in this book, goes on for twelve pages.

Susan Fletcher:

It's not a small scene.

Susan Fletcher:

And there is a character that gets into a sticky situation with an animal and you just.

Susan Fletcher:

This.

Susan Fletcher:

You really think this character is going to die?

Susan Fletcher:

And it's the most.

Susan Fletcher:

My heartbeat was.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, it was probably, you know, 200 beats a minute I was going through these pages just going, don't let him die, don't let him die.

Susan Fletcher:

He needs to be safe.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't want him to die because I loved this character so much.

Susan Fletcher:

It's a child, this character, and the manner at which he potentially could meet his end is just horrible.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just wanted to.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, should I say more?

Susan Fletcher:

Is this just too.

Host:

No, because.

Host:

No, I would.

Host:

No, I'm gonna have to go read it now.

Susan Fletcher:

Okay.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't want to say whether he makes it or not.

Susan Fletcher:

Or do I?

Susan Fletcher:

I don't know.

Host:

No, no, don't.

Susan Fletcher:

But it is absolutely.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, I couldn't put the book down.

Susan Fletcher:

I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Susan Fletcher:

It's so tense.

Susan Fletcher:

And all the other characters are trying their best to save this boy and you're wanting them to, you know, do this.

Susan Fletcher:

Do this.

Susan Fletcher:

Have you tried this?

Susan Fletcher:

You know, I could feel myself.

Susan Fletcher:

I probably even shouted it out loud at three in the morning in Northumberland, you know, sending this message to the fictional Amazon and these people that don't exist on how to try and save this little boy.

Susan Fletcher:

So again, it was one of these books, like some of the others that I've mentioned and many more besides that just instill in you this wonder of the written word and makes you realize how powerful it can be.

Susan Fletcher:

That it can consume you and change you and send you to another country.

Susan Fletcher:

And I just remember my hands shaking.

Susan Fletcher:

And when I got to the end of that scene and I knew the outcome, you know, flopping back in the bed and going, I'm so tired.

Susan Fletcher:

And having gone through that in a really exhilarating way.

Susan Fletcher:

And like I say, I now have Anne Patchett on sort of constant read because she's just so accomplished.

Susan Fletcher:

And one of the reviews for State of wonder says, and I'm mashing up the quote.

Susan Fletcher:

I can't remember it exactly, but it's something about.

Susan Fletcher:

Here is somebody who can write really high end literary fiction but make it so accessible and make it a page turner.

Susan Fletcher:

And I completely agree.

Susan Fletcher:

And that's what a challenge and what an accomplishment to be a writer who can do those things.

Susan Fletcher:

So, yeah, I think that that book deserves.

Susan Fletcher:

And that writer deserves to be on the list.

Host:

I was the same with Anne Patchett.

Host:

I had lots of.

Host:

I mean, I would buy her books and I'd have several on my shelf and then not pick them up.

Host:

I think the dutch house was my first one that I read of hers.

Host:

It's really good.

Host:

Really, really good.

Host:

But for my.

Host:

I can't remember when it was my book club.

Host:

We chose twina.

Host:

So they always have two picks.

Host:

It's Bel Canto or State of wonder.

Host:

After, you know, Florida announced that they were two of the potential books to be banned from there, she spoke out about it.

Host:

So I was like, right, let's read one of her banned books and see why.

Susan Fletcher:

I didn't know state of Wonder was Washington suggested to be banned.

Host:

That's really interesting.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Bel Canto and state of.

Host:

So Bel Canto won the vote.

Host:

But I was like, I bought state of Wanda because I was, like, really interested to see.

Host:

Not that I think any book should be banned, but I was like, what is in there that people are afraid of?

Host:

So I just pick it up.

Host:

And now I need to find out what happens to this poor lad in the Amazon.

Susan Fletcher:

I know it is.

Susan Fletcher:

It's.

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, it's about two thirds of the way.

Susan Fletcher:

And it's an absolute cracker scene.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel I should revisit it, but I need to just make sure I'm.

Susan Fletcher:

Even though I now, you know, know the outcome.

Susan Fletcher:

I feel it's one I need to just be prepared for because it's.

Susan Fletcher:

I've never read anything like that scene.

Susan Fletcher:

I don't think, you know, it's not beautiful.

Susan Fletcher:

Not like the english patient with this.

Susan Fletcher:

This yolk set down on the rocks, which has such sort of, you know, it's limpid and beautiful and soft.

Susan Fletcher:

This is.

Susan Fletcher:

Comes at you as the creature does.

Susan Fletcher:

So it's.

Susan Fletcher:

Yeah.

Susan Fletcher:

Anyway, I will leave it there.

Host:

Okay, so I'm going to take us on to the final question, which I know is a tough one.

Host:

If you could only read one of these books again, Susan, which one would you choose?

Susan Fletcher:

I mean, temptation is to say the english patient, but I also know that I've read it so many times.

Susan Fletcher:

Do I take it and read it for the umpteenth, or do I take one of the other ones?

Susan Fletcher:

I think I probably do have to take the english patient.

Susan Fletcher:

It's between that, actually, and women who run with the wolves, because that picks you up when you're in a bad place, if that makes sense.

Susan Fletcher:

That's so nourishing.

Susan Fletcher:

Can I.

Susan Fletcher:

I would probably go english patient.

Susan Fletcher:

I would have to.

Susan Fletcher:

It helps that I've met my conduct.

Host:

I can see the pain I'm causing.

Susan Fletcher:

I know, I know.

Susan Fletcher:

The fire.

Host:

I don't want to do that to you.

Susan Fletcher:

Let's say the english painting.

Susan Fletcher:

It's been a light.

Susan Fletcher:

You know, I've loved it ever since I've read it, and I think I've got about seven copies of it, all a bit dog eared and marked and covered in tabs, like, kindly, like.

Susan Fletcher:

The state that night in question is for you.

Susan Fletcher:

So I will take the english patient, please.

Host:

Oh, brilliant.

Host:

Susan, it has been absolutely wonderful chatting to you.

Host:

I've loved every minute of this.

Host:

I could carry on chatting to you all day.

Host:

It's been so lovely.

Susan Fletcher:

Absolutely.

Susan Fletcher:

I think we just, you know, have a coffee break and get some biscuits and sit down.

Susan Fletcher:

I've loved it, too.

Susan Fletcher:

Thank you so much for asking me, and it's just been such a stimulating and fun chat.

Susan Fletcher:

So many thanks.

Host:

Thank you.

Host:

Thank you.

Host:

The night in question is out now, and I hope that today we've managed to convince you to pick it up.

Host:

It is a great read and just perfect to curl up with on an autumn evening.

Host:

As always, all of the books that we've talked about today are listed in the show notes with links to buy.

Host:

I really hope that you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have.

Host:

I'll be back next week chatting to another author about the books that have shaped their life, and I really hope that you'll join me for that episode, too.

Host:

In the meantime, I'd be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe, and most importantly, tell your friends about it.

Host:

Thanks for listening and see you next week.

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About the Podcast

Best Book Forward
A bookish version of Desert Island Discs
Have you ever wondered which books shaped your favourite authors?

Best Book Forward is the bookish podcast for avid readers where we delve into the lives of your favourite authors and discover the books that have shaped their lives.
Prepare for surprising picks, heartwarming stories, and the ultimate literary dilemma: "If you could only read one again, which would it be?"

Warning: This podcast may lead to an uncontrollable urge to expand your TBR pile.
Ready to discover your next literary obsession? Tune in and join Helen's vibrant book community!

Find Helen online:
Instagram: @bestbookforward
Website: https://bestbookforward.org/